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It Should be Automatic that Manuel is Gone By John Gelsomino May 12, 2003 SoxNet.net The Sox have echoed this story before. We’ve heard the same excuses before. We’ve heard every reason why not to panic about this team’s lackluster start, inept situational and overall hitting, and why Jerry Manuel is not the one to blame. Well, if he isn’t, then who is? Who is responsible for making sure this team is ready to play every day? Who is responsible for lighting a fire under a sagging team? A team playing to an empty ballpark in a Dusty-crazy city? The Manuel era needs to be over. Change, not patience, is the only thing that will prod the team past this most recent downfall. It’s unfair to blame Manuel completely - the players have done little of their own to get this team off on the right foot. Paul Konerko needs to be held accountable as much as anyone; he has probably hit into more double plays then hits this year. Every big situation ends up in a ground ball and a thrown helmet. Hawk Harrelson continually says one day he’ll be amazing - the Sox are still waiting for that day. Other then the month of June last year, what has he done? Ponder that while switching gears to Carlos Lee, who still looks clueless at the plate and even bigger around the waist. I thought this guy was a hitting machine? Frank has been disappointing, but at least he has an on base percentage over .420. Maybe Ordonez and Konerko could walk once in a while instead of popping up and hitting into double plays. Aaron Rowand is finally gone, but is Willie Harris much better? He’s faster, at least … but you can’t steal first base. The pitchers have done their jobs with the exception of the “closer” Billy Koch, who has been atrocious all season. Who does he think he is, screaming at Manuel for taking him out? Didn’t he see the two ropes hit off him that inning that were hard outs? Didn’t he know Eric Chavez was licking his chops to explode on one of his 90 mile an hour fastballs? If this guy’s that ignorant, there’s no wonder why Oakland didn’t want him; they certainly don’t miss him now. So many problems, only a few solutions. Manuel needs to go, whether or not this debacle is completely his fault. You simply can’t fire 25 players. This team shows no fire, no desire; they don’t “come ready to play.” That’s a reflection of the manager. You only have to look a few miles north to see what a change at the top does for a team. Bobby Valentine would do. Maybe Wally Backman. How about Carlton Fisk? Think he would take lip from Koch? It’s surprising that a team that has bailed quickly on good managers before has become so patient with Manuel. Jim Fregosi had little room for error. Jeff Torborg may have been the worst firing in team history. Gene LaMont had two bad months with an awful team in ’95 before he was given his walking papers. Manuel has been here since ’98, and his record is slightly over .500 thanks to an impressive first half of 2000. This coup could be similar to Tony Dungy or Doug Collins getting ousted. They took young teams and built them up, but couldn’t go from point B to point C. If the Sox insist it’s not Manuel, then is it Williams, the one who essentially built this team? I don’t know… I doubt a GM is going to take that blame. Ken Williams needs to make a decision and soon before 2003 ends up resembling the last two seasons. To quote a phrase direct from White Sox lingo – “It’s Time.”

Yep it amazes me every day how much the site/board has grown. Its all thanks to all the people that read the site, post on the board, etc. We got a great group here

All I want to know is what the kids said. Until then, you can't judge this, imo.

I don't like the Rome show.

Yep, I'm from Orange County. We have quite a few posters from Socal. A lot of us will be representing the Sox in Anaheim and LA. You going to be at any of those games?

Too bad no one on our team could hit .333

Simply ignore them. Its real easy, stick with your friends and don't give a damn what they say.

I am a huge Encarnacion fan and I also like Pierre. To me both would be great additions to the club. Heck, I'd take both of them and move Caballo and someone else and worry about Borchard where to play Borchard when the time comes and he proves he's ready. I really believe this team should retool. I rarely ever see it get done in the regular season, but if you recall Billy Beane did a bit of this after the first month to month of a half of the season last year.

Sirotka was a lot like that. Buehrle is way better then Siro though. I think with Buehrle its mainly at times he seems to lose a bit of concentration. Still, I don't mess with his numbers and I love having him on the mound. 2-6, he should be 6-2 or so.

I HATE the dh. I like the style of national league ball more. I believe if pitchers were to hit they would have a better idea of how to pitch hitters and I also love the strategy of the game. Only thing I like about the DH is it gives some guys a shot that wouldn't of gotten the shot before. Also lets some vets stick around longer.

Absolutely right. Give the D some time to adjust to his first full season healthy in years. I watched him for almost 3 season here in SD to know the type of potential he has. Those "lazy" statements made by Klesko and Nevin were BS. Finally someone else that has watched some Padres games. There was no real issue there with him being lazy. The only issue was D'Angelo never knowing where he was going to be played and kind of getting pushed around. He could of handled it better, but from hearing Padre great Randy Jones talk about him he was a hard worker who played his butt off. He may not be everyones friend, neither is Bonds, but that doesn't mean Bonds is lazy. Some players make things look easy and they get the lazy rap to them. I don't think DJ is lazy. No one could come back from his injury to play baseball at this level if he was "Lazy". Oh ya In San Diego he showed them a whole lot of potential. I know tons of people around the organization loved him, from hearing them talk about him on the air, etc.

I'm just going to say that sources aren't right 100% of the time. I trust what Steff and HSC told us. No, this may not happen, but it isn't because of them. They aren't sitting there making up crap trying to get attention, they heard something and told us. I thank them for that. Think, sources said we had Erstad but something nixed it. Things can change, they heard something and told us. The time period may of been a bit off, but somethings can get done slowly. A manager going is something that usually happens quick, when it comes to a gm, its not as much of a time issue, because he really doesn't have much of a day to day aspect on the organization; Not like a manager. The GM puts the team out there and since your not shifting the team every day, you can be a little more "lax" in this issue. I hope that Steff and Michelle give us more info in the future, say around the trade deadlinge

If he can hit .270 then I do think he could develop more patience, plus all the little things he does, that earns himself a spot. I want to give Miles a shot once the Sox are out of it. Its just right now Jose and Jimenez aren't going anywhere so he has no holes. If we are losing, Jose will be gone (He's got a fat contract and he's definately got value).

All I'm going to say is if this season keeps up the way it is, we'll be moving Jose Valentin and playing Miles and Jimenez in the infield giving them each the opportunity. asctually if it keeps up on its current trend youll be moving jimenez to 3rd and crede???...who knows I will not forgive the Sox if they do anything with Crede. I've seen enough to know this guy is going to be a stud. Quick hands, great defense, power to all parts of the field, but he's lacking a more disciplined strike zone. That being said he never has had high K numbers in the minors and I believe he'll get better every year in the K/BB category.

I've heard the same, but when its all the same speed, thats when your in trouble. I won't give up on him, but I don't personally rank him too high.

The way we played it, for simplicities sake is that you only get to make one pick for the game, no matter if they play or not. You do have up until the first pitch of the game to make your pick so you can wait until the last minute to see the lineups. It gets to be a mess if people are picking multiple people, plus what happens if your first pick pinchhits? That is why we just went with the one player one pick rule. Makes sense to me. I'll stick with Jimenez

First off welcome aboard to those that are new here. In regards to the rules, everything looks good to me Ss2k3. It looks like you have a very good system, minus the fact that pitchers can't be included, but I don't think when Hawk and DJ do their picks to click that they count pitchers either. I think the objective way is nice because it narrows that doubt, but I won't complain either way I'm just glad we finally have this contest together.

All I'm going to say is if this season keeps up the way it is, we'll be moving Jose Valentin and playing Miles and Jimenez in the infield giving them each the opportunity.

Jerry is saying the right thing right there, but that also sounds like the quotes of a manager that will be gone very soon. I really see the Sox cleaning house.

Well Colon is one of those guys that probably could do some insane amount of work, so could Randy Johnson or even Terry Mullholand. In terms of Prior, look at his pitch count. The only thing he has going for him in terms of the high pitch count is how flawless his mechanics are.

But as long as Cooper is calling the shots with the staff, like he is right now, we really wouldn't have too many worries. Thats the rule though

I'm going to take D'Angelo Jimenez. In case he doesn't play, I will take Paul Konerko.

Baltimore is playing the White Sox at US Cellular. Game time is 7:05 central time. The PTC rules will be posted on the top of the board very shortly. Hope everyone has fun with the contest and a special thanks goes out to southsider2k3 for organizing this.

Konerko or Lee, I would keep one of them, but I don't want Thomas or one of the other around. We need fundementally sound players. I could give a damn about homers. Get guys that know how to handle a bat, play defense, can run, etc. I take avg over power.

Crede isn't the problem. Don't blame rookies and second year players for a teams failures cause they are players that shouldn't be counted on. The guys to blame are the vets: Konerko, Thomas, Ordonez, and Carlos Lee. Give Rowand and White some blame and Koch as well. Ward shouldn't be the only one fired. This team drastically needs a new idea and a new direction, imo.