Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 06:49 PM) Here's my thoughts since everyone is going to disagree with me: I hated giving up the 16 pick and if we would have made this same deal last year we probably would have had a top 3 pick in this draft instead of possibly getting one next year. As is, I'm happy they picked a lane even though they didn't get full value for Jimmy. Trading him isn't going to hurt this franchise that was going no where with him anyway. We haven't always agreed on the Bulls recently...but I can commend you for your consistency.

QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 06:37 PM) http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/what-th...-no-plan-062217 damn Kris Dunn, who showed in his first year that he was a massive — MASSIVE — stretch at No. 5 in last year’s draft. (He’s two years older than Karl-Anthony Towns, by the way, and he shot 40 percent on two-pointers last year.) • Zach LaVine, a solid starter, but nowhere near a game-changer, unless it’s a dunk contest. (He’s also coming off a significant knee injury, having torn his ACL in February — who knows what he’ll be like coming back.) • The right to move up nine picks in the 2017 NBA Draft, to select Lauri Markkanen (whose best NBA comparison might be the Bulls restricted free agent power forward Nik Mirotić). The Bulls didn’t get Andrew Wiggins, and they didn’t land multiple first-round picks, setting themselves up for years to come — they traded their first-round pick (No. 16), in the deal. In a star driven league...we officially have no stars...and traded our star most likely for no one who can be a "star". Everyone on this board complained about NBA hell...I'd argue this is a lot more like NBA hell. A day ago we had a top 10 player in this league...now we don't. Hopefully the front office is smarting then we all think.

I would think we'd be moving Rolo for a pick, but maybe plan is to keep him and then move him at the deadline (keeping him around as a solid mentor)? I never thought Bulls would move Butler so I'm caught off guard. I laugh though since most everyone on this board b****ing were the same people b****ing about moving Jimmy in the first place. How will people react if the Lakers get Butler for multiple 1st's and Clarkson (not the #2 overall pick)?

Leaf is who I wanted the Bulls to pick @ 16 (had we still had the pick). Is this Markanen (sp?) any good? Clearly a great shooter, which fits and seems like he has handles. Poor rebounder at this point and not a good defender (at least as of now). Seems like what we thought Niko was going to be (and a role that has upside). That said, only way I can see him being a game changing is if he goes full on Dirk (maybe he can).

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 05:53 PM) Interestingly we're $27-28M under cap right now without offering QO to Niko or MCW. Is that why we traded away the 16th pick? Are you implying we are going to go heavy in FA? Who is even worth going heavy in FA? Hayward is obviously good...but he isn't coming to Chicago.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 05:41 PM) Why aren't we dumping Lopez for a pick? Worried the Bulls will half-ass it and try to compete for a 8th spot instead of legitimately tank. I wonder if we don't see some more trades (given what we just did). What I thought was going to be a very predictable off-season just got more interesting (hopefully for the better). Either way, come late October, I'll be watching.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 05:40 PM) Remember all those clips from last season with Wade not playing defense? There's gonna be a whole lot more of those this winter. Too bad Doc Rivers isn't the GM in LA (otherwise I would say we could move him).

It's a funny world...I've never heard Nick Friedell so optimistic about the Bulls (and then everyone on here jumping off the wagon).

Do we think they resign Niko? Seemingly all of these personnel are fits for Hoiball

For those that said we don't have shooting...we did add 2 3 point shooters (+ Dunn) as well as overall athleticism. I legitimately wonder what happens with Wade. For those who wanted it...Bulls picked a lane.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 04:58 PM) And the Bulls took a giant s*** while I was typing. WHY THE f*** ARE THEY GIVING UP THE 16TH PICK?!!?!?! That's really f***ing dumb. I'm not a fan of Dunn or LaVine. Dunn is only about 3 years younger than Butler and sucked last year. As for LaVine, I think he looks sexier in highlights than he does on the floor. He can dunk and shoot 3's reasonably well, that's about it. The T-Wolves played better after he got hurt. Speaking of which, that's another huge issue. I agree with you on the pick. Dunn is 4.5 years younger than Jimmy though. I do like Lavine. The injury is the big issue. I have a friend in an NBA front office and he has long been a big fan of Lavine (in fact over Wiggins). This person is a scout (not like a full GM...so I should caveat it). This info is from last season too (so nothing fresh).

It should be noted that Levine was pretty damn good before he went down and has been trending upwards (which is a good thing) since joining the association. I honestly would have put the trade as borderline fair if it weren't for giving up 16. I really wish we had 2 1st rounders in this draft. I'm a fan for life so now to hope Lavine gets healthy and becomes a freak (he's at least fun to watch) and that Dunn can emerge (everyone is writing him off pretty quick). Now to see who we draft and hope Paxson finds the next Luol Deng @ 7 (or better...but Deng was last guy I can think of that we took at 7)

Well...I hope Lavine is healthy and keeps his forward looking climb and I hope Dunn can be the player a lot of people thought he could be before last season started and that whomever we get at #7 can turn this around. Will be interesting to see what happens with Rondo. I presume he will be kept and Bulls will have him mentor Dunn?

Wow....Wolves get 16 pick too.

I will miss Jimmy Buckets.

I like this deal for Twolves a lot. They needed this veteran presence. I hate fact Boston didn't make this move.

Lavine, Dunn, and the 7th pick. I wanted Wiggins, but I also am a huge Levine fan (that said...I am sketchy on his ACL injury). So much risk. If Levine wasn't coming off the injury, I'd actually be giddy. Upside there...risk is also there. What happens with Wade?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 03:29 PM) Bulls should have moved Jimmy before Porzingis hit the market. #3 + Brown + Brooklyn pick and filler might have been doable. Maybe throw in the #16 and a pick swap for 2019? That is what I would have wanted...but Boston has supposedly refused to put anything more then one of those assets on the table (and with some rumors...not even some of these assets).

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) Unfortunately I dont think Fox is there at 7. I think Fox goes 4/5. And I personally think people may look back at this draft and wonder how Fox fell. Its unfortunate that there is no way that the Sun/Bulls match at all. Because I think 4 is the pick you need to get Fox. I agree with you and I also agree that Fox isn't there at 7. Then again, everyone thought Dunn was going to be a stud last year and look at people's views of him this year.

What do people think about Butler & 16 for Wiggins, Lavine, and #7? Or Butler for Wiggins & 7 on its own (is that enough)?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) Normally I would agree, but Durant going to the Warriors really changed things. I dont like the Warriors and Im the last person who wants to write this, but right now their team is built in a way that it is hard for me to imagine the Bulls being able to compete with. Now Durant could get injured, etc, but at this time its just hard to see a way that the Bulls can beat the Warriors, especially when the warriors will bring in vet guys every year to patch holes. I wish this wasnt the case, but I do not really see how the Bulls can get 2 superstars to go with Butler. That being said, I am also not willing to give Butler away for free which is why it has to be something like Wiggins + 7 or #3+ BKN. Otherwise you might as well keep Butler and hope you can land a FA or get lucky in the draft and some other things go your way. Chisox, The Boston thing is what Ive been saying for the last few days. They are acting like these top picks are definite superstars, when the reality is that they are more likely to bust than be Butler/Porzingis. Which is why I cant believe that Boston wont just do what it takes to get Porzingis or Butler. Every time I look at the roster I feel like they are closer to a team that loses in the first round than a team that wins a Championship. On both parts, I agree whole-heartedly.

The insider over at Real GM (who from past history seems to have very very legitimate sources) is indicating Bulls are interested in Fox (not a shocker) and they are still having conversations with Minny regarding Butler. His view is no deal would happen until we legitimately saw Fox there @ 7 (and just cause Fox is there at 7...it doesn't mean a deal happens...just means the Bulls might be more okay with potential deal). Supposedly Bulls front office is crazy about Fox (of course a year ago it was supposedly crazy over Dunn).

It's too bad Lavine tore his ACL, cause I believe in his upside and could see him eventually being the best player on Minny (but a lot of risk with that prediction).

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) See the edited post I made (above yours) which shows a history of top 5 picks (excluding #1 overall picks...so picks 2-5). The list is pretty damn depressing. This view that being awful for long is some great path to success is a bit delusional (not saying you have that view). Some could say the same thing about my view....I guess the difference is...I don't think that the only way to build a contender is via tanking. In fact, I can't really think of an example who has proven tanking works. Maybe Sixers will eventually pull it off. Warriors didn't tank to get where they did...they struck gold in a series of drafts though (and than on top of that had Durant land in their lap). That said, neither Curry / Klay were top 5 picks and Draymond wasn't even a 1st rounder. The above is also why I can not fathom what Boston is doing. I can from the perspetive that I see value in them "accumulating" picks...but I don't get their process of leveraging the value of their picks (given where they stand). I do think Thibs understands the value of veterans helping move things forward (we all knew it from his time with the Bulls where he consistenty referenced history and the fact that rookies players rarely play key roles on championship teams) and if there was a team who was going to come in hard (who has feasible assets), it would be Minnesota, with a player like Wiggins, whose floor is damn high and then you have the potential upside of other players (and if they bust...you haven't set yourself back years...which is the risk if you just trade for a #3 overall pick). I guess I'll leave it with this...if Bulls trade Butler...I think it is to Minny built around Wiggins, the #7 pick, and either future picks (or Dunn). If Butler goes to Boston...it is because Minny upped the offer and Boston got serious about danlging future picks to go with the #3 pick (and even then, if I were the Bulls, I would be a fan of then flipping #3 with Sac for #5 and #8), unless their grading on Jackson was that much higher.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 12:41 PM) Does it come with a time machine? Not getting into salaries, but 5 years ago this team would actually be interesting: C- Lopez PF- Aldridge SF- Butler SG- Wade PG - Rondo But I think that right now that roster is nothing more than middle of the road. The Bulls need to get a lot worse so that they can start getting top 5 picks. See the edited post I made (above yours) which shows a history of top 5 picks (excluding #1 overall picks...so picks 2-5). The list is pretty damn depressing. This view that being awful for long is some great path to success is a bit delusional (not saying you have that view). Some could say the same thing about my view....I guess the difference is...I don't think that the only way to build a contender is via tanking. In fact, I can't really think of an example who has proven tanking works. Maybe Sixers will eventually pull it off. Warriors didn't tank to get where they did...they struck gold in a series of drafts though (and than on top of that had Durant land in their lap). That said, neither Curry / Klay were top 5 picks and Draymond wasn't even a 1st rounder.