Chisoxfn

Lavine, Dunn, and the 7th pick. I wanted Wiggins, but I also am a huge Levine fan (that said...I am sketchy on his ACL injury). So much risk. If Levine wasn't coming off the injury, I'd actually be giddy. Upside there...risk is also there. What happens with Wade?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 03:29 PM) Bulls should have moved Jimmy before Porzingis hit the market. #3 + Brown + Brooklyn pick and filler might have been doable. Maybe throw in the #16 and a pick swap for 2019? That is what I would have wanted...but Boston has supposedly refused to put anything more then one of those assets on the table (and with some rumors...not even some of these assets).

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) Unfortunately I dont think Fox is there at 7. I think Fox goes 4/5. And I personally think people may look back at this draft and wonder how Fox fell. Its unfortunate that there is no way that the Sun/Bulls match at all. Because I think 4 is the pick you need to get Fox. I agree with you and I also agree that Fox isn't there at 7. Then again, everyone thought Dunn was going to be a stud last year and look at people's views of him this year.

What do people think about Butler & 16 for Wiggins, Lavine, and #7? Or Butler for Wiggins & 7 on its own (is that enough)?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) Normally I would agree, but Durant going to the Warriors really changed things. I dont like the Warriors and Im the last person who wants to write this, but right now their team is built in a way that it is hard for me to imagine the Bulls being able to compete with. Now Durant could get injured, etc, but at this time its just hard to see a way that the Bulls can beat the Warriors, especially when the warriors will bring in vet guys every year to patch holes. I wish this wasnt the case, but I do not really see how the Bulls can get 2 superstars to go with Butler. That being said, I am also not willing to give Butler away for free which is why it has to be something like Wiggins + 7 or #3+ BKN. Otherwise you might as well keep Butler and hope you can land a FA or get lucky in the draft and some other things go your way. Chisox, The Boston thing is what Ive been saying for the last few days. They are acting like these top picks are definite superstars, when the reality is that they are more likely to bust than be Butler/Porzingis. Which is why I cant believe that Boston wont just do what it takes to get Porzingis or Butler. Every time I look at the roster I feel like they are closer to a team that loses in the first round than a team that wins a Championship. On both parts, I agree whole-heartedly.

The insider over at Real GM (who from past history seems to have very very legitimate sources) is indicating Bulls are interested in Fox (not a shocker) and they are still having conversations with Minny regarding Butler. His view is no deal would happen until we legitimately saw Fox there @ 7 (and just cause Fox is there at 7...it doesn't mean a deal happens...just means the Bulls might be more okay with potential deal). Supposedly Bulls front office is crazy about Fox (of course a year ago it was supposedly crazy over Dunn).

It's too bad Lavine tore his ACL, cause I believe in his upside and could see him eventually being the best player on Minny (but a lot of risk with that prediction).

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 12:46 PM) See the edited post I made (above yours) which shows a history of top 5 picks (excluding #1 overall picks...so picks 2-5). The list is pretty damn depressing. This view that being awful for long is some great path to success is a bit delusional (not saying you have that view). Some could say the same thing about my view....I guess the difference is...I don't think that the only way to build a contender is via tanking. In fact, I can't really think of an example who has proven tanking works. Maybe Sixers will eventually pull it off. Warriors didn't tank to get where they did...they struck gold in a series of drafts though (and than on top of that had Durant land in their lap). That said, neither Curry / Klay were top 5 picks and Draymond wasn't even a 1st rounder. The above is also why I can not fathom what Boston is doing. I can from the perspetive that I see value in them "accumulating" picks...but I don't get their process of leveraging the value of their picks (given where they stand). I do think Thibs understands the value of veterans helping move things forward (we all knew it from his time with the Bulls where he consistenty referenced history and the fact that rookies players rarely play key roles on championship teams) and if there was a team who was going to come in hard (who has feasible assets), it would be Minnesota, with a player like Wiggins, whose floor is damn high and then you have the potential upside of other players (and if they bust...you haven't set yourself back years...which is the risk if you just trade for a #3 overall pick). I guess I'll leave it with this...if Bulls trade Butler...I think it is to Minny built around Wiggins, the #7 pick, and either future picks (or Dunn). If Butler goes to Boston...it is because Minny upped the offer and Boston got serious about danlging future picks to go with the #3 pick (and even then, if I were the Bulls, I would be a fan of then flipping #3 with Sac for #5 and #8), unless their grading on Jackson was that much higher.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 12:41 PM) Does it come with a time machine? Not getting into salaries, but 5 years ago this team would actually be interesting: C- Lopez PF- Aldridge SF- Butler SG- Wade PG - Rondo But I think that right now that roster is nothing more than middle of the road. The Bulls need to get a lot worse so that they can start getting top 5 picks. See the edited post I made (above yours) which shows a history of top 5 picks (excluding #1 overall picks...so picks 2-5). The list is pretty damn depressing. This view that being awful for long is some great path to success is a bit delusional (not saying you have that view). Some could say the same thing about my view....I guess the difference is...I don't think that the only way to build a contender is via tanking. In fact, I can't really think of an example who has proven tanking works. Maybe Sixers will eventually pull it off. Warriors didn't tank to get where they did...they struck gold in a series of drafts though (and than on top of that had Durant land in their lap). That said, neither Curry / Klay were top 5 picks and Draymond wasn't even a 1st rounder.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 12:37 PM) Would anyone have interest in Aldridge? Dangle the 16 plus Mirotic? Sounds like that marriage is not going so well. Certainly makes the Bulls better. Doesn't make them a championship team...but if you can land someone a year from now...that get you into top 3 seed range (again...not a championship team as written...unless you hit / get lucky a couple other spots).

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 12:18 PM) Cant wait for Boston to completely screw this all up. its like they forget that they got all of these picks by trading over the hill veterans. Jimmy Butler is an over the hill veteran? Have most posters looked back at the top 5 picks going back the last 10 years. If you exclude the #1 pick, you can count on 1 hand the number of players drafted who are at least as good, if not better then Butler. Even adding the #1 overall pick, that number doesn't increase much. In fact, it is eye opening how many top 5 picks end up being pretty garbage NBA players. I think Boston is insane for not leveraging their picks to better their team now. Unless of course Ainge truly doesn't believe in his team...in which case he should be trading Isiah Thomas and stockpiling everything. Ainge has gotten too cute and if he sticks with the status quo, he'll have wasted a golden opportunity to give Cleveland a run for its money. Would they be the sure fire favorites, no, but they'd be right there to go to the championships if Cleveland faltered. By the way, here is a summary of top 5 picks (from 2004 through 2013)...excluding the #1 overall pick. Someone else pulled this summary together on real GM (and I would argue there might be a few players he is being overly harsh on...as I'd say DMC is on par with Buckets), but I think it should be used cause it adds some reality to the mix. There are people in LA who are calling Ingram a bust (last year's #2 pick)...and obviously the Lakers shipped Russell (2 years ago #2 pick off) a couple days ago. 2004 Emeka Okafor Ben Gordon Shaun Livingston Devin Harris 0 2005 Marvin Williams Deron Williams Chris Paul Raymond Felton 1 2006 LaMarcus Aldridge Adam Morrison Tyrus Thomas Shelden Williams 0.5 2007 Kevin Durant Al Horford Mike Conley Jeff Green 1 2008 Micheal Beasley OJ Mayo Russell Westbrook Kevin Love 1 2009 Hasheem Thabeet James Harden Tyreke Evans Ricky Rubio 1 2010 Evan Turner Derrick Favors Wesley Johnson DeMarcus Cousins 0.5 2011 Derrick Williams Enes Kanter Tristan Thompson Jonas Valunciunas (Butler drafted at #30) 0 2012 MKG Bradley Beal Dion Waiters Thomas Robinson 0 2013 Victor Oladipo Otto Porter Cody Zeller Alex Len 0

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 11:51 AM) I would obviously do that deal if I'm Boston. That seems like a fair deal for both sides.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jun 22, 2017 -> 11:21 AM) Sam Amico‏Verified account @AmicoHoops 35m35 minutes ago More Both #Pacers and #Bulls were trying to insist on Kyrie Irving in trades, sources say. #Cavs quickly lost interest. I think Bulls best bet is getting Kyrie in a year (not sure if it is actually feasible)...but I think him and Jimmy want to play (we clearly don't have the assets to get him...unless he really forced Cleveland and all that is subject to LBJ leaving.

I feel as if the Wolves are the only team potentially serious enough about getting Butler. The question is...would the Wolves do Wiggins, Dunn, and their pick for Butler. I think that would be my minimum required threshold for getting Jimmy. I feel at least the floor isn't bad (cause Wiggins is a good player...not Jimmy Buckets...but very solid). Dunn sucked last year, but Bulls liked him and young PG's can take time to develop. The pick isn't super high, but you have a shot at getting another quality player. I'm not in love with the deal...but if Bulls really wanted to move another direction...I'd be okay with it. I couldn't do a deal centered around Levine, Dunn, and the pick (or even future picks).

Windhorst: Jimmy Butler / Paul George to Cleveland is not happening. Cavs can't get the assets to make it happen (at least not at this point).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 05:32 PM) Do you put ketchup on your steak too? No...but I put it on my hamburgers...which are ground up beef...kind of like a sausage...which is ground up pork / chicken with various seasonings within.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 01:54 PM) Pretty much seals the fate for any Butler trade. I suspect they will settle for that European PG and a couple of end of bench guys and call it an off season. (God forbids they signing Iggy, talk about a horrible fit). I think 2018 offseason is when we see the real actions take place. Wade and Rondo coming off the books, Butler and RoLo are the only guaranteed contracts in the books. We may make another FA push then, or just trade those two for picks and completely tank for next 2-3 years. I agree and to be honest...that isn't that bad of a plan (given the current situation of the Bulls).

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 12:06 PM) Are you thinking of Grant Desme? Wouldn't have been 3-4 years ago, but that dude was a 2nd RD pick, batting .288 with 31 HR, 31 2B, and 40 SB.....and then retired to become a priest at age 23. Crazy outcome after such an incredible season and talented kid. Grant Green was pretty highly thought of way back when (I'm going purely off memory...haven't google searched), but wasn't he a highly touted SS out of USC?

I recommend the Kettering Incident. I have an episode left, but pretty darn good.

Wade opting in should tell everyone what they should expect regarding Buckets.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 04:00 PM) Not surprising and I wouldn't blame him, but he was the one saying the top 5 reasons he came to the Bulls were Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, and Jimmy. That he didn't want a rebuild, and all the rest. So either this Jimmy trade talk is mostly BS and the Bulls planted it to get DWade to flee, where then they could totally sell getting rid of Jimmy and rebuilding even to the biggest holdouts, or he was BSing. I am going with him BSing because he still had time to see this out. But if he did wait, he wouldn't get anywhere near what the Bulls will be paying him. Missed in all this Bulls trade talk was the fact that Jimmy was supposedly doing hard core recruiting to other players to come to Chicago. This might have changed in last 24 hours, but the comments on Butler pushing Cavs might have been leaked by Cavs people to try and force the issue (since Jimmy has supposedly been pretty steadfast in his commitment to the Bulls).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 02:56 PM) A lot of teams really want him. I do think Cleveland at least rumored to be in on Jimmy, could change Ainge's mind. That is the one place he probably doesn't want him to go, but say they did get pick 3. Jackson is supposedly the guy they covet, but what if Magic took him at 2? Would Lonzo Ball be a no brainer? He does have questions. Obviously #1 would be his idiot father who probably wouldn't be too thrilled he was in Chicago. The other is his shot, it seems to go in but it might be a little tougher with bigger stronger more athletic guys guarding him. And I watched something yesterday where depending how you look at it, this is either the way the game is going, or a red flag. Supposedly he had only 7 field goals last year that weren't lay ups or 3 pointers. It is going to be interesting to see how he pans out. Lonzo would fit into what Fred wants to do (presumably).

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 02:11 PM) Celtics arent worth dealing with right now. If they wont even give up #3 there is just no point even discussing. If they are really going to move Butler, I think the best idea is something really outside of the box like trading for Cleveland's picks in 2020/beyond. The Bulls then will suck hardcore for the next 2-3 years and then by that time Cavs will likely suck too, so youd be looking pretty good in 5 years. What is Boston offering? Jaylen Brown plus one of the valuable picks they have next year?

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 01:40 PM) "multiple other 1st rounders" are worthless if they're the Celts own picks. The lakers/kings pick is a gamble. That's not enough. They also own the Nets pick. That is a lot of high caliber picks...plus Jaylen Brown (who is a pretty valuable asset.). Lakers/Kings is getting you a high pick....Nets is getting you a high pick...Jaylen Brown is a year removed from being a high pick...and you get other future picks / players.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 12:09 PM) Pelicans ain't trading Anthony Davis, dude. So if you were offered a package of the #3 pick, the Lakers pick next year, the Nets pick, multiple other 1st rounders plus say a Jaylen Brow, you wouldn't think about it? What if Davis gave the Pelicans a bit of a nudge. I think Boston absolutely has the ability to do something.