Chisoxfn

Japan's index down 7 percent. Us futures down 3.5 to 4.5 percent depending on Dow vs Nasdaq. Pound at 30 year lows. Love the German economic ministers tweet...damn damn a bad day for Europe. Or something to that elk.

Paul Zipser, SF from Germany. Member of German National team who played in the Bundesliga.

Clearly the world doesn't trust the establishment, unfortunately, they are making bad decisions in their rebellions. I hope we don't look back at this and than a Trump election as the drivers of the next world war or disaster. But one of the strongest economies of the world, just had its people make a decision that will have severe implications on its near term overall health...that is a bad thing when the world economy was already struggling. Just awful...honestly...awful. I really hope I'm overreacting, but it just pains me when something so stupid happens, that should never ever happen. Any economist worth a grain of salt would tell you how awful this is....but lets ignore the facts and bury our heads in the sand (this is not biased economists...this is like every f***ing economist. I could understand the longer term implications (or if there economy was soft that they wanted to do something else), but the reality is, who the hell know what will happen longer term. This reminds me of what happened after WWI when the world went into "isolationism" which created the rise of certain dictators and the next war. God I hope history doesn't repeat itself (by the way, I'm not referring to UK being a dictatorship, but I am slightly afraid at Trump acting like a dictator...although I am not at all comparing him to the infamous german).

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 08:30 PM) Good job tanking your own economy* *and dragging lots of other people down with you Yeah - Really awful for their economy. Their is nothing but short-term negative repercussions of what is happening (over the next 5 years). I realize they had immigration concerns, but don't destroy your entire economy due to that. This is really short sighted and horrible. Europe is now going to be focused solely on itself over the next few years as the countries now have to work together on new treaties (which will take a lot of time and take the eye off of doing what they are supposed to be doing) and businesses are going to be scrambling to move / set up operations / figuring out ways to operation. This has major major implications (unless the rest of the EU somehow caves...since you know...the Brits ultimately still want all the benefits of being in the EU, they just don't want to pay the member fees). By no means was there deal perfect, but the alternative is far worse and has major global repercussions. Glad to see the resident Trump supporter doesn't understand that this is the 21st century and these type of events impact everyone (kind of like how negative interest rates elsewhere prevent our ability to move rates up quicker (which is what we should be doing and what our overall economy would support...thus giving relief and putting in extra bullets for future monetary policy).

Ah s***. That is really really f***ing bad if it happens. Really really bad for the health of the global economy.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 06:48 PM) that means nothing... I think it tells me what had been reported a week ago that franchise was building around him and that he was privy to what was going on looks to be more true and whatever leaks were from other organizations. In sure bulls would listen though why wouldn't you. Get blown away and make the move. We were dealing from the position of strength.

Welp...no deal with Boston. Butler is staying put (don't think we think highly of Jaylon Brown), unless the Lakers do something after the fact or Twolves do it.

I want #3 and Okafor or #3 and next year's pick for Butler and whatever the heck else (if I'm doing this). That said, if we do this, get ready to be pretty bad. Staying with Butler and seeing if you can get quality PG play and eventually make a FA run isn't necessarily a bad thing. All of this comes down to how the Bulls grade out whomever they'd take @ #3. I just think Ainge is the type of guy that ultimately gets deals done, meaning, he isn't going to get hung up at the end of the day and will be willing to strengthen the terms.

Err...s***, hadn't even seen the KC stuff. I think at some point, Boston kicks in next years pick and things end up working out.

I think when push comes to shove, Boston ends up getting it done. There is my prediction.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 04:25 PM) @ianbegley Heard one deal that was offered to Chicago for Jimmy Butler included Minnesota's No. 5 pick and Zach LaVine. Lavine is a very intriguing talent, but what do we do @ 5. I still don't think it is enough. We need a star and I don't know that we are getting that, again. Wiggins and LaVine and you got something.

If something happens, we'd know pretty quickly (although I suppose, there is no reason a team couldn't make a trade at a later date (as long we liked who they selected).

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) You don't like Heild? I like him, but I think the Bulls would be drafting Dunn and I probably would go Dunn as well. Either way, Heild or Dunn, doesn't matter, I don't think it is enough value with getting another top pick. Dunn fits the profile better of the type of guys that Paxson and Gar have had a lot of success drafting.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) I'm probably alone but I'd take Heild at 3. I like scorers. I would be ok with Dunn as well. Here is the thing: Dunn, Crowder and Marcus Smart gives us two potential starters, none of which has any solid probability of even approaching Jimmy Butler territory and than a solid young bench type player in Smart. Crowder is not some high impact player and Smart is a

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) Crowder, Smart, and the #3 and I'll be happy. That would net the Bulls 2 role players and no one with a high probability of being in Butler's range (as big drop off from 2 to 3). yes, it means you get Dunn, but I don't know that Dunn is widely viewed as being a perennial all star or something. This is a league of stars, so unless you get multiple guys you think can be a star back (when you are giving up a guy who is a star signed to a long term deal), you just don't do it. It is that simple. And if you are these other teams, you make the move, because theortically you presume the bust rate on those two young players equates to one Butler (or Butler just helps your immediate time table better / helps your longer term plan / and/or your ability to sign another impactful free agent (as they'd rather play with buckets than wait on two youngsters).

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) I believe so. There is also a Oladipo +11 for Butler rumor floating around. Horrid...horrid. No difference maker @ 11 and Oladipo is so far worse than buckets. That is on the opposite end of the spectrum of the Wiggins + 5 rumors. And yeah, evidently this person thought initially there was more smoke behind Butler for the #2 pick and now they are retracting that. Maybe it is because it would take much more than the #2 pick alone. I certainly am not trading Butler for Ingram, straight up.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) Mark Medina ✔ @MarkG_Medina I've sensed skepticism Chicago's Jimmy Butler is getting traded to Lakers in a deal involving No. 2 pick, What does this mean....that it is unlikely?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) Celtics just dont really match cause their next year pick is going to be mid range at best which just doesnt have a lot of value. Lakers/Twolves deals can work. I have tried to figure out a 76ers deal that works, but I just dont see how the Bulls could get Okafor + the 3rd, which is what I think you need to get to move Butler. Otherwise you just keep him and eventually someone will pay the price. Next year, Boston has right to swap picks with the Nets, so the Celtics pick is actually New Jersey's and they will suck (barring some shocker), so next year's pick is actually extremely valuable. Boston also has New Jersey's 2018 1st round pick (unprotected) so theoretically, if you were looking at a longer term rebuild, Boston could be an excellent fit (but I don't see them giving up what would appear to be 3 top 5 picks (as I would be surprised if the Nets, given the lack of picks, etc, aren't in the top 5 in each of the next two seasons). I would be stunned if Boston would give up that many of their assets, however, they are focused in a now mode. Hard part for the Bulls is the Boston deal, if it is more based upon future picks, yes, helps from the sake that the team will be bad the next couple of years, but it also hurts from the perspective that you know you will be bad for at least a few years and I don't know if JR has ability to stomach it. If you can get a top pick now, plus a promising young player (and the benefit of cap space), than you have a faster path to potentially contending (especially given the east), where you could be talking about getting back into the playoffs (if you can parlay the picks appropriately and leverage your money on a big signing).

Philly is making serious run at Boston's #3 pick and dangling its young bigs. Not sure if Boston does any of it straight up. Everyone knows Boston wants Buckets badly...if you get enough leverage, things could work out...but I don't think the Bulls FO has it in them to make this type of role the dice move. That said, I didn't think they had the guns to move Rose either. I also have no idea if any team even comes close to making the offers outlined above, either.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) I'd need an active player from the Celtics as well. I probably do as well. What you have to wonder is, is there a scenario where the Bulls / Celtics / Sixers dance with Butler going to Boston, and Okafor / Picks to Chicago, and Philly getting young player from Chicago / Boston + picks.

In summary, the only way I'm moving Butler are in deals where he is in the centerpiece and we are getting back the following (not saying these other teams would do it, but what it would take for me to do it...and to get the below, I am on board with giving up other guys / picks as sweetners). My elow list is in order of preference with the Wolves / Lakers ranking above the Celtics. Twolves: Wiggins & #5 pick Lakers: Russell & #2 pick Celtics: #3 pick + next year's pick (just for Butler...no sweetners here, such as giving up our pick or something)

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 01:17 PM) It's just bulls***. The Bulls would never win a deal so hard. I think it is a more realistic offer than getting Wiggins plus 5. Russel has a lot more questionmarks associated with him than Wiggins and while Ingram is a really good talent, Wiggins has already proven himself. I think the Lakers would consider such a move, especially if they legitimately think they have a shot at a bigger name player (and they think Butler is more likely to help them get said player). I think this deal, theoretically could make a lot of sense for both teams.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) If that were part of their decision making it would say a lot about how management values personal issues with people compared to winning. Agree, but sometimes the personal / emotional side is hard to ignore (unfortunately). I do think a bigger term deal which would include someone like Taj (plus our 14) could ultimately drive something to happen where you essentially start building around Dunn, Wiggins and a s***ton of cap space for next year (maybe you sign someone like Barnes with that space to fill up your backcourt) or maybe you try and sign a Horford this year so that next year you have that vet to go with the younger assets that you are going to try and sell a Durant / Westbrook / etc on. Ultimately, I don't see the Bulls moving Butler, but I absolutely think from a rebuild perspective, if you could legitimate get Wiggins and the 5th for a package headlined by Butler, that is the type of move you have to absolutely consider. If all I'm getting is one or the other, than it is harder to do, unless I have a lot of confidence in specific targets around what I can leverage that cap space for.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jun 23, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) Trading Butler for Wiggins and a pick makes so much sense on paper if the Wolves are willing to do it. The Bulls could then take Dunn and you'd have 2 young studs to build around. But makes little sense to the Wolves, unless Thibs just flat out thinks Butler is the star he needs next to Towns (and he doesn't see it working with Wiggins).