Chisoxfn

Interesting nugget on Niko. After he came back from his surgery, he shot 44.5% from 3 on 137 attempts...6.3 attempts per game. As a reference point, Curry shot 45.4% on 11 attempts per game.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 03:56 PM) I'm honestly not expect two max players. Maybe they don't get CP3 and they instead get a guy like Griffin or trade for Cousins or even Westbrook. Maybe these three stars surprise us and mesh. Maybe they don't and Rondo leaves and we nab a star PG. Well see. I can say I'm 100% more confident in landing a star this way than not signing Rondo and Wade. I agree...I think two is unlikely, but I think we can get one and that makes us a pretty damn competitive team, imo. One that could be the right break or just one more move away from actually winning a title. A lot of this is a who the hell knows, but still, I feel better about next year today than I did a week ago.

Summary of what George Carl said about Rajon Rondo earlier today on ESPN 1000 (copied from another forum):

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 02:34 PM) It's still too tight if we assume Wade is here. Butler+Wade is about 43 mil (haven't seen exact # for next year). Two full-freight maxes already takes you barely over 102. Even if you assume 25 each, you have less than 10 mil for the rest of the roster, which doesn't really work. I'll put it this way: the Warriors have Klay and Draymond at only 34 next year and they will have to give up basically everyone to keep Durant and Steph (though they may take less). Do they have to give them up? I presumed they would have bird rights, so they could just resign everyone and pay absurd luxury tax. Am I mistaken? (referring to the Warriors).

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) When talking about cap for 2 max players next year, what does trading Lopez do? Isn't his deal perceived as pretty good relative to the contracts thrown around? You move Lopez and you are very close, barring some huge injury, you could move Lopez no problem.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 11:41 AM) I missed the fact that Wade got a player option. Obviously that changes the math considerably, though he's not going to do much recruiting if he opts out. Yeah - It also allows the potential for Wade to be one of the guys who helps create flexibility (I think I alluded it to one of my posts somewhere).

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) People that are bad at math apparently. Butler, Lopez, Wade and even 50 mil for two FA comes out to like 106, and the other 8 players (I think you need at least 13) won't work for free. I think the difference is my definition of "in the neighborhood vs. your definition of in the neighborhood".

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) Giannis isn't even worth discussing as he is a restricted free agent next year and Milwaukee will almost assuredly just match any offer. Fair point. Realistically, I think they land Chris Paul and the question is does Blake go with them or do guys like Niko and internal people take steps up where we look more at Paul plus one or two solid players (and than know that when Wade rolls of the books the following year, you can again add some youth). This wasn't the strategy I imagined the Bulls took...but I see plenty of possibilities of a good team. I see zero possibilities of being the front runners for the title, but I don't know anyteam that could do anything about that today (given what is on the Warriors roster) but that doesn't mean you should just give up and the reality is you never know what could happen. Realistically, we all know that a year from now is a long way off, but the Bulls could actually be in a pretty solid spot to lure and entice some high profile guys.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) What? Max deals are higher for older guys. That's why Barnes is like 4-94 and Horford is like 4-113. And once again, they're not close to a second max. They would have like 17 mil for 9 roster spots. Yes - I am referring to Giannis who would get a smaller deal than the 30M you reference (and than you'd have a Paul who would be at that projected 28.8M number). And you can really clear space with all the minimum roster holds, etc. There are some people who have pulled together some pretty detailed charts saying it absolutely is doable (or was at the 107). Doesn't mean you have a deep roster, but you are in the neighborhood.

Bottom line, we could argue all we want about whether the Bulls can offer full max or within 2 or 3M per player if you went two max guys, but the reality is, given the cap increases, etc...that puts you in as competitive position as anyone else and that team would still have pieces like Wade / Butler / Lopez. Now they have to be competitive this year or everything goes to hell (and Wade better damn well enjoy his stay here).

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) Yeah but I didn't add him because he's not leaving. Durant & Lebron will be free agents too. Again, not saying they will be leaving, but you never know what could happen.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 10:17 AM) Their plan is probably to try and get Cousins anyway. What is his contract status? FA in 2 years, I believe.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) Who are the two max guys they are going to get though? The only max-type guys available next year are Paul, Griffin, Westbrook and Antetokounmpo. And it seems odd that Rondo just pursued and recruited Wade only to be replaced a year later by Paul. Technically, isn't Steph a free agent. If you sign Giannis you would have room for a max to Giannis and a max to someone in the older age max group (given how the max deals range). Plus, Lebron & Durant will presumably opt-out again and be free agents.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) Your math on what is on the books is way off. Wade, Butler and Lopez's contracts alone are higher than that. My fault...damn hoops hype must not have been summing up the option years for hte other guys. So yes, it would be doable, but you'd have a ton of no namers. Still that is assuming that all those stars can't agree on a few M per year less amongst themselves.

Let me ask a hypothetical. A year from now, if the Bulls sign Chris Paul (and only Chris Paul) and lets just say Blake Griffin...what do people think of a Paul / Wade / Butler / Griffin / Lopez, lineup? Pretty much everyone on that roster is capable of playing D and scoring. You have some older guys, but also youth and coming off the bench you have essentially our home-grown picks? If you asked us a month ago, if that would even be possible, I think everyone would have said no chance, but I'd say that is a pretty darn solid team (both offensively and defensively). Yes, spacing may not be the best (Butler would need to improve his 3 point shot, but Paul is a good three point shooter), but it should be able to play with pace and play quality defense with a potentially solid bench (depending on how Portis / Doug / Valentine / Grant / others emerge). Is it a guaranteed champion, no, but its a legit top 5 NBA roster.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 09:56 AM) The old projection was only 107, so I don't see how. They have $50.9M on the books for next year (Wade / Butler / Lopez / Doug / Snell / Jerian Grant / Bobby Portis / Valentine). Cap at 107 would give you 56.1M in available cap space. Two max guys FA's with 7-9 years of experience are projected to cost approximately 28.8M each). So under the previous regime, if we essentially moved Snell, we would have had the room (including draft holds / roster holds). Felicio is someone we could get minimal cap stuff for as is Dinwiddie. Basically under the old scenario it was totally doable, without any major sacrifices. Under the new cap, where we are down 5M, the reality is, the way to do it would be either by moving Lopez or by getting existing players or the FA's to take slightly less than max money (or essentially dump everyone but Wade / Lopez / Butler (which is possible). Wade could opt out and sign for slightly less (but Bulls could add another year to make it worth Wade's while). Bottom line, if guys wanted to come here, they could make it work. Or we get one max guy and one guy damn near max money while keeping Wade.

I think Chris Paul will be one of the players we sign next year.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 09:21 AM) By the way: the two max deals dream needs to die. They just updated the projection to $102 mil next year. Butler+Lopez is just over 30 and a first year max will be close to 30. That would be 90-ish, and then you just gave a geezer 2-48, Rondo needs to be off the books, and there's 9 more roster spots with holds. The math just doesn't work. But I'll live with a real max guy plus a really good player too.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2016 -> 09:21 AM) By the way: the two max deals dream needs to die. They just updated the projection to $102 mil next year. Butler+Lopez is just over 30 and a first year max will be close to 30. That would be 90-ish, and then you just gave a geezer 2-48, Rondo needs to be off the books, and there's 9 more roster spots with holds. The math just doesn't work. The math absolutely worked prior to the updated projection. The question is what will the projection ultimately be. Rondo will be gone in the two max scenario deal and we'd renounce the right. I do agree the cap reduction leaves us a bit short. I had posted the numbers based upon the old projection yesterday and they absolutely worked.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 08:52 PM) I never claimed flights don't delay. I claimed that front offices that are in major free agent meetings don't miss theirs to a flight delay when there are clearly many other planes that were not delayed, or you go the night before. This is the NBA, they just signed a 24 billion tv contract. They can fly charter to visit players in the hamptons. It is not comparable to an accounting firm. I don't really consider this winning. But I pray this "recruiting angle" works, because this is the worst roster construction for modern times. Even if it explodes and Forman is fired, it means we will be unattractive as a destination again. But perhaps we'd get a good draft pick in a good draft. It is a business. The overreaction was because people are stunned that we had a delay come up when none of us know the circumstances of what was going on. We don't know what Wade and the Bulls talked about. Wade might have said, I think we can meet at X time in NY or it might be the following day here, but I'll confirm tomorrow or he might have not really confirmed anything until the morning. The Bulls might have told him X or Y happened. It could have literally been, you have a one hour window or a two hour window and they found that window out today (when prior to today, they didn't know if they were meeting with Wade in NY or if it was today or tomorrow or what). The point is, none of us know, so to overreact is just absurd on something like this. I can't imagine Gar and Pax sitting on a Southwest flight, saying, oh thank god this thing is delayed, now I don't have to fail miserably in our pitch or not trying to do something. Sometimes you can't do anything, especially if the window is short. You might have found out at 6 AM this morning you need to book a flight and go to the airport and get on that 8:30 AM flight to NY that got you in with a little time to spare and the plane backed out of the gate and bam, mechanical failure and you literally sat on the tarmac (I don't think they apply special rules to NBA GM's than the rest of the population (I can't just stand up on a plane and say, please please, take me back to the gate, I need to book another flight so that I can meet with Dwayne Wade). It doesn't work that way...they'll sit on the tarmac (no matter how loud you pout or how much you scream and shout about who you are (unless you scream and shout loud enough that they give you a full cavity search at airport security and put you in jail).

Now when we use our MLE to sign Ray Allen...that is when I will proclaim our championship aspirations. I do wonder what we will do with the MLE.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 08:50 PM) There are some huge names out there. One thing I can honestly say is that this team now has two stars who are willing to sell the s*** out of this team. Yep - And Jimmy is going to be working that angle at the olympics while Wade is vacationing with Chris Paul and Lebron, etc. Oh...I can't wait till next year, when we are finally on the right side of these bromances and guys teaming up (and coming to CHICAGO). f*** man....f***. Never saw this coming. And LOL...supposedly Calderon went to Lakers for just 1 2nd round pick (per KC...some earlier reports were that it was 2 and even than, given his contract, that was a coup, imo). Cavs, on the other hand, did really well getting Dunleavy (and Pax has already told Dunleavy to whisper into Lebron's ears every night about the Bulls so that a year from now, they can come back...LOL). In all seriousness, I love MJD from a basketball standpoint playing with Lebron. Bulls are either getting a 2nd round pick from Cavs or a foreign player.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 08:43 PM) Man you are on some crazy pills when it comes to the Bulls my friend. What crazy pills. Do you people not realize, we will have cap space for two max deals. Are you going to choose the Lakers? Okay...Knicks could be a possibility (NY plus Porzingis could be a stud) but legimately, who the hell else is going to be able to construct as attractive of a team and make a pitch for two max deals (clearly the Warriors are out...OKC I suppose could...but it is OKC.....Dallas / Houston...maybe....Clips could...but bottom line, we are in a good spot. PS: Never have you seen me claim any delusion we are going to win a title with this roster, but i legit think 3-4 seed is more than reasonable.

Literally, we will be able to offer 2 max deals next year and still have Buckets, Wade, Valentine, Portis, Lopez, McDermott...not all that bad of a spot to be in. Please, please, let this team takes steps forward (and not backwards) so they truly are really marketable to the 2017 class.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 6, 2016 -> 08:35 PM) Yes it was a bulls*** hilarious moment from a front office full of them, like when they set out to get younger and more athletic and then signed wade and rondo. Shack wins again! Yeah, so hillarious and awful.....internet trolls everywhere won, oh wait, he signed with the Bulls. On the bright side, anytime I have a delayed flight, somewhere in between my annoyance of the delay, I will laugh and think of you bmags and your rant against the Bulls front office. PS: I am not saying that in a dick tone (in case it comes off that way). I laugh at my own hillarious comments at times too and you too, will one day laugh at this comment. Probably a little less to almost exactly a year from now, when we land that big f***ing fish.