Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) I also LOVE the idea of somehow getting Reddick added to this. Not sure what that would do to the cost to bring Jeff in but I believe adding a top defender in the outfield would do wonders for this team. Agree Shark and Reddick would be great additions.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:54 PM) If the White Sox are an example to follow, then that's not exactly true. Seems to me that in the past 10 years, the Sox have had several front of the rotation starters but only had one above average 2B during that entire time frame in Tadahito Iguchi. People saying that it's easy or that it's not as important have yet to really win me over with that argument. Frankly, if Semien is dealt, the Sox are looking at Carlos Sanchez and Micah Johnson as the internal candidates at 2B. Those two were both less than impressive at both AAA and the MLB, depending on where either ended up. All we can say at this point is we'll see. Technically, outside of this past year, wasn't Gordon Beckham pretty close to a league average 2B (when factoring in his defense)? Slightly below average, but close?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) People keep claiming that 2B is one that is the least impactful or least important. Why? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind that because I sure don't understand it. And then I'd point out that Robinson Cano signed a 10 year, $240 million deal. I believe the Mariners overpaid, but that was a franchise that surely felt that 2B was not the least important position on the field and they almost clinched a Wild Card spot last year and are in great position to do so this year. Most people reacted extremely negative to that deal because it was less important / less impactful. Bottom line is a league average 2B is not near as productive / valuable as say a league average cf'er, etc. Basically put, standards are less. Is it easier to find a league average centerfielder or a league average catcher? I know someone will say, league average is league average, however, I tend to view it from the standpoint, guys with less tools, less overall credentials, prospect status, etc, have a higher probability of being league average at say catcher / 2B than other positions. A lot of that, in regards to 2B, is driven by the fact that the position doesn't require as many tools or as good of tools to succeed than other positions. Cano signed for such big money (and if you remember, it was significantly more then any other team offered) because the Mariners needed to overpay to sign him but they also needed to drastically change their culture and try to find a bat that could play in that stadium. Cano is a very special hitter and will go down as one of, if not, the greatest 2B to ever play the game and even than, I don't know that long term that deal will be all that great and it was an extreme overpay by a team who had to, to bring in an impact bat and try to drive a contender. Sox also have 4 guys who could potentially play 2B as well.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:15 PM) Because it takes one idiot team to make sure you don't get the player back. Exactly. If all you had to pay to get Shark now (a season earlier and when you have exclusive rights to negotiate with him), was a guy like Semien, you do it and not worry. Heck, even if it was a year earlier than when the club intended to contend, I'd do it, however, with guys like Abreu, Sale and Q and the general value they bring, now is the time to look to contend and start our window. Is this year aggressive, sure, but there is no reason with that sort of front of the rotation, you can't be in the picture. Favorite...no, but possible, certainly.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) I don't know if I agree with the bolded...it's too early to say Marcus couldn't be a special player. That said, I'd move Semien for Shark but not Anderson. I think Semien has a chance to be an average to slightly above average ball player. My view of that is because he doesn't have insane power at the position, doesn't show the ability to win a batting title, and doesn't play premium defense or play a premium position. He does have the chance to be an above average offensive player, but "special", perennial all star, I don't think so. I think Tim Anderson has a chance to be the games best offensive player at a premium position (meaning..best offensive shortstop in the game...not best offensive player in the game). Book is still out there on his defense and I'm not saying it will happen, however, Anderson is an explosive athlete with a big time hit tool. He is still extremely raw so bust factor is high as well. Just my 2 cents, but we obviously agree in general on willingness to move Semien for Shark. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, we also have significant organizational depth at 2B (in terms of guys who have a shot at being serviceable players at a cheap cost).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) Ultimately I probably would trade Semien for Samardzija, but I'd try and take about every avenue possible to avoid it. On the long list of players I won't trade, Semien is far from the top, as is Micah Johnson. Why...because we have two of them, plus Saladino and Sanchez. All four of these guys have flaws in their game and none of them, with the possible exception of Johnson (because I overrate speed) has a chance of being a total impact maker at their position. I think all of them have somewhat of a chance of being a league average player at one of the least important / impactful positions in the game. And we are literally saying we won't trade that person for a starting pitcher, one who might be overrated by some, but with low mileage, plus stuff, and who has been taking positive steps forward the past couple years and a guy that I could project to be better 3 years from now vs. now (when he is already above league average and would, on our team, be arguably, the best 3rd starter in baseball). Come on now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) Like I said, the only way this deal proposal makes sense for the Whtie Sox is if for some reason Billy Beane accepts a "he should have hung up the phone" offer, and even then it's still confusing. Except you seem to think a Semien for Shark offer is absurd for the Sox and I am telling you that is a hang-up the phone type offer for Beane.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) So basically trading for Samardzija makes sense if Billy Beane forgets to call 28 other teams and gives him to us for a huge discount. If you "fully expect the white sox to make a run at signing him to an extension", why on Earth would you give up anything in a trade for that guy unless you have a competitive roster this year? Again hitting my point, this makes no sense. If were going to blow 9 figures on a pitcher, just go add Shields. PS: I just saw the insaneness of the 2nd part of your post. Why trade for Shark and sign him now, when you could wait a year and sign him as a FA? Well, one, we are playing and designing a plan to be a contending team this year (and a top 3 of Sale / Q / Shark is as good as any in baseball) and two, that price of an extension might be significantly more expensive with Shark on the open market vs. shark today. You have far more teams competing for him, etc. I will continue to say that your style / approach is to only have guys who are more valuable then their contract, never anything less, and under your scenario's, we either give at bats to guys who are young and may or may not have talent (as you don't know unless you give them like 3 years worth of at bats given your general approach to patience) and surround that with guys who you sign to one year deals coming off lousy previous years but with good stuff...who may or may not rebound...you will hit on a few, fail on others, and continuously be a horrific ball club. Edit: Okay I give, we might not be horrific, but we will never win a world series / be a consistent contender with that approach.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:57 PM) It makes a LOT better in the rotation, unless you believe in Chris Bassitt, or Andre Rienzo over JS. Even once Carlos Rodon is up, Hector Noesi is next in line. That front three of the rotation is as good as any team in baseball.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) So basically trading for Samardzija makes sense if Billy Beane forgets to call 28 other teams and gives him to us for a huge discount. If you "fully expect the white sox to make a run at signing him to an extension", why on Earth would you give up anything in a trade for that guy unless you have a competitive roster this year? Again hitting my point, this makes no sense. If were going to blow 9 figures on a pitcher, just go add Shields. You are the guy that said you wouldn't trade Semien for Shark. I just said that is insane logic and extreme over-valuing of the deal. I am okay trading Semien, Beck, Johnson, and others (not all in one package) for Shark. I don't want to trade Anderson and I'm also okay with a package centered around Alexei. I also think we plan on signing him long term and I'm okay with that based upon the dollar figures I've seen thrown around (which is a 5 year deal If I was given the choice of Shark for a little less than 100M or Shields (and the loss of the pick) for the same price (bug we get to keep Semien), I'm taking Shark 100 out of 100 times and I think pretty much every executive in baseball would too. No slight on Semien here. But I think Beane would hang up the phone if that was the Sox best offer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) Marcus Semien for 1 year of Jeff Samardzija continues to make no sense for the White Sox. It makes us slightly worse next year most likely in the lineup (Sanchez becomes your full time 2b, have to go sign a utility infielder just to back up Gillaspie), which is even worse in a way than Trading Anderson since trading for Samardzija is such an "all in on 2015" move. I am sorry but this post is just an insane overvaluation of Marcus Semien, who I happen to like. If we could get Semiene for a yr of Shark, I would do it every day and twice on Sunday because at the deadline, there is a high likelihood if we were out of contention I could sell him for far better talent than Marcus Semien. Plus, I fully expect the Sox to make a significant run at resigning Shark if we were to trade for him. Trading Tim Anderson with no intention of signing Shark to an extension, would be something I would have an issue with. Anderson has a chance to be a special player, Semien does not. You also can't view this in a vacuum, if you trade Semien for Shark, why do you just assume we go with Carlos Sanchez vs. looking at outside options (either via FA or trade)? PS: I think it is just as likely that Johnson starts at 2B anyway so now we are trading a utility guy for an above average major league starter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 11:37 AM) Paul Sullivan ‏@PWSullivan 2m2 minutes ago San Diego, CA Kenny says Reinsdorf won't allow him to talk with Jays "at this time." He is not considering resigning. You really wonder if some of this comes down to the competitiveness of this occurring during the course of our off-season, with specific plans and tactics lined up. I think if it is still available in late January, it becomes fair game. But right now, we just lose a significant competitive advantage by having Kenny with what he knows leave the organization.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 11:32 AM) I think the rule should be 2 weeks from the original air date. Not everyone watches shows the night they are on. I know I don't. There's too much good TV these days. And it sucks not being able to talk about other shows because you don't want to read a potential spoiler. I agree with something like that. Maybe 2 weeks is a little long, but spoilers for the first week since airing, at least.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 11:02 AM) That's exaggerating a bit, Lance Born Ready owns that definition. He's very hesitant to go into the paint this days (saving himself for meetings and graduations I assume), and he's still a very mediocre shooter. Unless he plays with more confidence and attacks more, he's going to be a very ordinary player offensively. He's also been very bad at fighting through screens, and it's no surprise he had the worst +/- in that game Saturday. It could be that he's still trying to get used to playing 30 minutes a game after 2 1/2 years off, we will check back in a month from now. I think a lot of this is he is still gaining confidence in his body. I haven't seen him drive and use floaters, stop and fire a midrange shot, which is something he was literally lethal with early in his career. He also has gotten to the basket at times at will (when he wants to) but hasn't had the touch that he will gain. I've seen more to be excited about then not, but it is going to be a long process with the biggest factor being his health and staying on the court. If he can stay on the court and play, we will see him look more and more like the player of old. I don't think he'll be that exact same guy / as good this year, but I still think if he plays, we'll see a guy that by seasons end is 85 to 90% of the guy he was.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 6, 2014 -> 07:09 PM) Rose is having a terrible game both shooting the ball and defending the ball. In the first quarter, he played much more aggressive then he has in quarters past. I actually saw a lot of good out of Rose's bad game, namely from the standpoint that at times he was much more aggressive then he had been. He still settled for far too many three's and was very careless with the basketball though. This thing with Rose will take time. The key is minutes and him playing and working into better shape but also gaining further confidence in his body. Rose has a huge mental block he needs to overcome.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 10:38 AM) +1 Exactly. I also think Emery has to go as well. This has been a massive and gigantic organizational failure on all levels.

Closing this thread. No catch-all posts, please.

Another game where we were completely outreached, outplayed, etc. I have never wanted to change coaches so bad in my history of fandom.

About 10 years ago, Riley turned down the Bama HC job (after he left the Chargers).

I would presume Micah Johnson.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) No s*** Sherlock! I'm posting in a drinks thread for the first time ever and no one is here to converse with me. This train ride is boring. It really was a shame no one was here to console you. Instead you just started sending out absurd tweets from the FutureSox account. We had to claim that the site was "hacked".

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:19 PM) Its almost as if Frost turned the job down Everything I heard was that he was never offered the job. I also don't believe any scenario where Frost would have turned the gig down.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 11:10 AM) Ace money IS now $30 million. Look at the Kershaw deal. No one else is in the same league as Kershaw though. Max certainly isn't. Neither is Lester.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) You'd think that Nebraska just hired the most marquee name out there if you read the tweets by national college football reporters. Nationally Riley was always pretty well thought of. It isn't like OSU is a place easy to recruit. Any local kids with high upside are going to Oregon.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 3, 2014 -> 01:14 PM) hey look, another unarmed black person was killed by a white officer and no charges will be filed. What were the odds of that happening in the same millennium. http://www.cnn.com/ "I can't breath!" choke hold case. But this person was suspected of selling cigarettes illegally. So, what is the proper response? Quietly protesting? That will get stuff done. I think what is unfortunate is this gives more ammunition to those protesting over Ferguson when the two cases are completely different, imo. In terms of Ferguson, I don't necessarily think the wrong decision was reached (or at least I think most everyone can agree it wasn't cut and dry at a minimum), however, in terms of the NY case with the video, etc, I'm pretty much speechless at how no charges will be brought. Not threatened and total excessive use of force.