Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:12 PM) Fields and Getz do not appear to figuring anything out. I liked them both as players but they started nicely and have regressed to a point where they are adding nothing to this team along with Lillibridge. Phillips can play third that is why I mentioned him. You'd be writing off Getz based on like his last 24 at bats or so. That seems very very ridiculous. Especially since its his first cup of coffee and it should be expected that he struggle and go through a period where he needs to make an adjustment. Defensviely he's fine and he's even had to go through injuries and being a leadoff hitter on a supposed contender so all in all I think he deserves at least half a season before any sort of judgement should be made.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:03 PM) Who said anything about Whisler or Cook? I've said before I think Cook is being underutilized, but for pitching, I am NOT saying Whisler is some great prospect. I do think that the pitchers I mentioned are intriguing though. And I'm saying Carlos Torres is no different than those other players. They are what they are and they might get a chance somewhere but if you plan on winning it won't be in Chicago. They might find a home with the Pirates as a 5th starter for a few seasons just logging innings and than eventually develop into a decent relief piece but they aren't anything more and if thats what we have to get excited about than I throw up at that thought. Link is the only thing remotely passable down in AAA, maybe Cassel if he figures his stuff out but his velocity is poor since the injury (and it wasn't good to begin with) and he doesn't have enough of the other stuff to succeed, imo. Lucy isn't bad as a potential backup catcher, again, nothing more.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:09 PM) No no, don't trade with the Cubs. Their players are so overrated. Also, I think I might have a stroke if I see one of my favorite Sox players of all time closing out a World Series for them (no, I'm not talking about Neal Cotts). I highly doubt the sox/cubs would make a deal, but for the right package, I'd always consider a trade. The problem is both teams feel they'd have the need to rob the other team blindly and thats why a deal would never go down.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:04 PM) Maybe the best bet would be if Mariano Rivera got injured. Of course, there's a team in Chicago that could desperately need a closer if they want to keep Marmol in the 8th inning. They also have some intriguing names. For example, I'd take my chances on Vitters, only problem being the Sox have a ton of 3rd base prospects already.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:01 PM) Here's the thing...the Sox obviously don't have a tendency of having players come up from their minors and contribute right away. If you're counting on Beckham, Poreda, Allen next year, it's probably going to be a trying season. It all depends on in what capacity your counting on them. I'm not asking any of them to be stars, rather solid players. I expect the Sox to hit FA to fill at least two positional needs, one relief need, and one rotational need and with 30 or so mill to play and in this economy they should be able to do that. Another name that I left out is AJ. I don't know if he'd have enough value to make it worthwile or not to trade him, but I kind of like keeping him around as he's a firey guy and I think would be good to have around the younger players.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:00 PM) Giants wouldn't do that...they have their closer in Brian Wilson (as long as he's not facing Mets). Not really sure what big time teams need a closer right now. Oh, I wasn't really saying they would, and your right, Wilson is legit, but thats the type of package that might just work. Like I said, I see Jenks as valuable to the Sox the next 3 years so I want a good offer to get rid of him. Angels don't really have the prospects, otherwise they'd be legit. Royals got lots of guys to like, but I don't know if they'd go for Jenks. I know they have a solid closer but it would be a major f***ing statement move by them. Drays are always an option.

No offense NS, but these team will suck a long time if they consider Torres or Whisler a long term option. Same with Cook. Maybe they find a way as a last man in the pen or in Cook's case a 4th or 5th outfielder but anything more and its a bad sign.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Which is why the rebuilding likely would be for two years from now and not aiming at competing next year. Very few teams can blow up their team one year and compete the next season. Danks and Floyd will be fine, Buehrle too, add a veteran via FA (1 or 2 year deal) and your in business, imo. Plus if you get one in a trade or something, even better. Thats just fine of a rotation, especially in the AL f***ING CENTRAL.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:53 PM) I just want to know who's going to pitch for this team for the next 3-4 years and allow us to contend. I see nothing but question marks after Buehrle and Danks (and even those guys have relative question marks). You keep Danks/Floyd/Buehrle and hope they all pitch. They have the ability so it than turns into a matter of finding two guys, you hope you develop one more of them and than can go the veteran FA route on a shorter-term deal to fill up the back-end. As Buehrle gets older, he slides down and hopefully you've developed another starter or two by than. Its not a bad rebuilding plan, imo, as I still have a lot of faith in Danks/Floyd being above average major leaguers for a long time.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) I assume you're thinking of Bumgarner and Alderson, i imagine they'd be off the table for anything other then young positional talent. Of the Brandon Wood, Beckham type. Jonathan Sanchez, however, would be somewhat more obtainable. Oh ya, they are completely unobtainable. Now if they wanted Bobby Jenks, that is the type of name I ask for. For example I'd do Jenks and one of our hitters for a package around Alderson. I think the Giants at least consider it too, depending on what else is out there.

In the case of Konerko, maybe you don't trade him for a good prospect, rather a solid ball player that is out of a spot or isn't that important on his current club. So it wouldn't be like a pure salary dump in that sense. There are just tons of options out there, imo. Whether it can be done or not, I don't know, and I still think you have to think of the ecomics of it and moving him could be a huge blow to the fan support. Buehrle definately stays though, unless the Dodgers wanted to offer up Kershaw, haha.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:50 PM) But if you're going all out for rebuilding (which will never happen under KW/Ozzie), why even worry about having Jenks at the end of the game? The biggest thing I've stressed to people about rebuilding is you can't be afraid to lose games. If you're going to rebuild yet hold on to certain players that have the most value, then you're just hurting yourself in the long run. Is KW really going to want to sign Jenks to a 3 year, 30-36 million dollar contract in 2 seasons? Because he's still a viable asset and there is no reason to force a trade (cause you can hold onto him with ease) . Having a strong pen is a necessity once you are ready to compete and I'm not talking about an extended rebuilding plan. Ideall the club is competing next year, assuming the Sox go out and spend some f***ing money and things pan out. I'm not saying they are series contenders but there is no reason they can't be divisional contenders in a year (at least in the Al Central).

I should point out Jenks is the one guy that I don't trade unless the other team is offering at least one "special" prospect, ie a high impact potential superstar player.

QUOTE (shipps @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) Seriously though,how refreshing would it be for KW to do a complete overhaul and go baby young for the rest of this year? And then make some noise in the off season with a couple signings. The key is you'd have to cut payroll as the club wouldn't be making as much money this year (due to poor performance) as well as next year (due to season ticket holders that cut and run) but as we've seen, winning teams draw attendance so if he can right the ship quickly (and that shouldn't be tough as right now the Al Central should be winnable for the next couple years...I don't buy this Clevaland s*** and Minny is meh, Detroit has some solid arms but financially is a mess, and KC is rebuilding but financially it will be tough to sustain) our payroll shouldn't suffer too significantly long-term. To me it just flat out makes sense.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) The scary thing about KW having any money to spend this offseason though is that he's sure to overpay for Chone. I realize this, but say even the Sox want to talk to the Angels about acquiring Figgins. Sox offer Konerko and Dotel for Figgins and than sign him to a deal. I think Figgins is past his prime, but in terms of value it changes things up and saves you substantial money (even after Figgins resigns) and the Angels might even do it to get the power into there lineup as well as stablize there horrid pen. I think the Angels could have a fit for one of the Sox hitters, Colon (to plug into the back-end of the rotation) and our relievers (aside from Jenks).

QUOTE (fathom @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:39 PM) If you get anyone to take Konerko's contract off our hands, you get rid of him. He's playing well this year, but in this market, he's severely overpaid. I like your idea of promoting Poreda, and a good spot could be as a lefty set-up man in case Jenks is traded (and Thornton moves to the closing spot). I wonder if a team like the Dodgers could be interested in Dotel or Linebrink, as their set-up men stink. The Dodgers are a team that I think will be buying at the deadline. The Angels will be a team that would be a tremendous fit for Dye or Thome (as DH's). If the Giants stay in things they could be buyers for almost anything and do have a nice crop of prospects. The Phillies have to defend there throne and could need some bullpen help. Mets and Yanks both have the pressure of the new stadium so they will be buyers. Red Sox probably sell a couple guys but might need to buy something as well, but they have such a deep stable of arms and a relatively deep lineup that the only thing I could maybe see them buying would be a bat for the middle of the order (especially with Papi sucking). Cubs and Cards might be buyers and with the Reds in it you might see them buy as well. Bottom line I think the Sox could potentially get some decent players and payroll savings and there should be ample buyers. The tough part is there are a lot of teams that won't want to add payroll plus other good players that might not normally be available will come available due to the economy. Still, June 1st, there will be buyers and I wouldn't be opposed to selling a few guys even sooner if you can find the right market.

I'm pretty stoked about Omogrosso. I don't know if he has the secondary stuff to be a starter, but he's got a big league arm and should be in Chicago this year if they rebuild or retool.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:29 PM) I don't know how they are doing this year, but Baylor is producing some real good talent this year. Baylor has massively collapsed and is a bubble squad. Kansas State is having a very good year though. Big 12 is easily one of the biggest hot-beds, if not the biggest, for future MLB talent though.

This might be a bit too early and I'd be the first to admit injuries have played a large part in this season and I'm not at all saying it would be impossible for the Sox to go out and win the division, afterall, I felt a healthy Sox team might have beaten the Rays and advanced to the World Series. However, this club, as it is currently constructed doesn't do it for me. We have a much worse rotation, a similar pen (which is a good thing), and a much worse lineup. CF/SS/2B/3B are all worse this season as opposed to last season. In addition, Dye is not playing as good as he was last year and Thome currently isn't (although compared to last year this time, Thome had poor numbers than too) as well. Hell, Konerko is pretty much the only go doing a better job and I won't throw Quentin into this mess either because he has had injuries to deal with but he's clearly not done as good of a job. So the lineup is much worse and defensively it is awful and the rotation is significantly worse (even though 3/5th's of it is the same) because two guys are having some growing pains (Danks/Floyd). As far as I'm concerned, this means now is a good time to try something new. It might still be a week or two too early, but we'll know everything we need to know about the Sox within the next 2 weeks, imo. We'll see if they are potentially a contender and if they aren't, by June 1st Kenny needs to have his selling hat on cause it would be time to make some wholesale changes to the current club with the intent of putting the club in a position to contend next season (cause we can't go 4 years without contending, it would be stupid in this economy, unless we want to see a 30M payroll for a long long time). So who are the locks to go: Dye/Thome/Dotel/Colon - Three of the four are on expiring contracts and the other has been an above average reliever with a bit of a high contract, but nothing that would prevent a contending team from taking it on. I'd also be hard pressed for the Sox to receive Type A compensation for any of these players as it would be far to risky to offer Dye or Thome arbitration and in the case of Colon I would be stunned if he'd ever even qualify for Type B compensation so again, not worth it. This means the likely value on the trade would most likely be less than A level prospects. However, it would not be out of the question to get a B level prospect plus something for Dye and Thome and maybe a former big leaguer whose struggled or hasn't turned the corner for a Dotel/Colon all while clearing off a lot of salary. Over 30 million to be precise. Who steps in? Brandon Allen would be an immediate option to step in and replace Thome's AB's to the point that the Sox could gauge the type of prospect that he is and make an decision or at least educated guess as whether he's part of the future plans. In the outfield, its pretty clear that the Sox don't have any bats ready to make an immediate impact, so you'd have to think one of the guys they acquire in a trade would be an outfielder that would step in with Brian Anderson getting the bulk of the time in CF (a last ditch effort of sorts to see if he could make it). Shelby/Gartrell/Danks all wait in the wings with Danks having the most upside, but it would be unrealistic to have much expectations for them to fill into the lineup. The Sox could eventually decide they'll stick with Fields and use Viciedo a bit (as he might prove ready at a later date). In the pen, I'd personally be tempted to bring Poreda up and throw him into the pen. Let Coop work on his secondary stuff with a plan of eventually converting him to the rotation, but letting him get comfortable in Chicago first. This probably wouldn't be the White Sox plan though as they seem adamant about giving him a shot as a starter and that probably means more time in the minors (and I don't blame them if they go that route). The biggest question is probably who steps in for Colon. You could again point to Poreda, but I'd pass on that (see above). Than there is Marquez, currently hurt, Egbert, Broadway and a whole lot of blah names. Again, with Richard already up, Broadway is sadly the best current option (Hudson/Carter are the best starting prospects the org has and they are at least a ways off and I wouldn't project either as being elite prospects as of this date...good ones sure, but lots of time for things to go wrong). But I'd like to think the Sox could find a quality guy to plug in here via the trade as well and of course there is always Jose Contreras as a stop-gap until a prospect is ready (and ideally, Contreras comes up, does decent enough and the Sox ship him out with a bit of cash in a purely salary savings deal). Veteran Locks to Stay: Buehrle is too valuable and you just play it carefully with him. I want to retool, not reload so he stays as he is still a valuable asset the next few years and a face of the franchise. Konerko is a guy I would personally listen to regarding trades and if you were able to get good value, you make a move, but in this market I dont' think teams would be as willing to give up enough to make it worthwhile for the Sox and his stable presence would be worthwhile. Plus, he's a face and you need to keep a few of those to stay cool with the fans. And with Viciedo and Allen both around, it could get really tempting to move Paulie knowing that you plan on an ideal situation of both of them panning out and covering 1B/DH for the next 10 years (and if not, bats like Paulies are easily acquirable, imo). Linebrink I don't think you get a blow you away offer for Scott and you still need guys to get things to your closer. Linebrink should also be valuable for another year or two and will eventually be the type of guy that you should get Type A or at least B compensation for (if all goes well). So I don't see a major reason to move him (a team blows us away, sure, but it won't happen). Toughest Decision - Bobby Jenks Jenks is a big time asset and is easily one of the upper echelon closers in baseball. He's still young so he should be a very viable option during your retooling face and will still give you the ability to close out games. Plus at the current rate he's still cheap so there isn't a major reason to move him. However, he could also be the guy that gets you two A prospects. I think he's the guy that you quietly make available, listen to offers, and if the right offer comes along (maybe 25-30% chance) you make the deal. Say a team in need of a closer or stronger pen calls up and offers there two top prospects (at least one being a potential high impact one) and potentially more, you make that deal and move Thornton into the rotation. The bigger beauty of this is you have Thornton signed to a solid deal and have Poreda able to jump in and learn as Thorty's replacement and potentially our future closer. Oh and in time you'll also open up spots for the Links/Omogrosso's of the world to get there chances. In the off-season you evaluate the parts you like, trade some pieces that don't fit to acquire better fits, and use 30M or so on FA pieces (when all is said and ton, the Sox would still cut payroll, but be able to buy a lot in FA to clean up the pen, find a starter and maybe find an impact bat and leadoff hitter).

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 18, 2009 -> 01:04 PM) Swisher still has a OPS+ of 137 and his career average is 113, so he's regressing to his average now, but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes back to putting up similar numbers he had before he came to the Sox. It's mind boggling how this team seems to just be sleep walking through every game, except when there's a borderline call at HP then they act like had their first born child taken from them. And he's a garbage player. I don't care what his OPS says. If you hit under .250 you pretty much suck in my book. Sure he'll hit some doubles and can play average defense at multiple positions and draw some walks, but as a whole, he's not a good baseball player. I think he would be a good fit in the NL, but you put a team full of Swishers and they'll be a very very bad f***ing offensive team and thats why OPS + and all that OPS stuff can piss off at times.

Dyson flat out dominated this weekend: RHP Sam Dyson (9 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 13 K)

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 18, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) How many guys leave the White Sox and go on to become significantly better hitters elsewhere? If there was a guy that hit .220 under Walker but .280-.300 under someone else, and it happened more than once or twice, the Walker bashers might have a point. I really don't see any of that yet, although I'm sure Swisher's name will come up, but one of the reasons the Sox got rid of Swisher was his refusal to listen to Walker. His batting coach is his father. And he's hitting something atrocious as his numbers are shooting way back down. I agree with you ont his Dick, however, I also agree something needs to be done as the management did a f***ing horrendous job and right now I see lifeless play and that is un-f***ing-acceptable.

QUOTE (sf_soxfan @ May 18, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Konerko's/Dye's passivity shows in these times. Dye basically walked home on Thome's homer today. No energy indeed. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as you have other people that can provide it. Unfortunately this squad has zero f***ing vocal or emotional leaders and its f***ing pathetic. You thought they learned from 07 but no they didn't. I really miss OC right now, like a whole f***ing lot.

Ya Matt, I knew that, am an idiot though. Big 12 is a much much more elite baseball conference, but Iowa State isn't the reason why, haha. Texas, OU, Oklahoma State, and Missouri would be those reasons. Hell, Kansas is even playing good right now (and will be in the playoffs).

I am absolutely apalled with what is going on right now. Its completely unf***ing acceptable. The lack of emotion is worthless and while I'm not going to say the guys don't care, I'm going to say that it certainly looks as lackluster as possible down there and something needs to be done to change it. Kenny/Ozzie, thats your f***ing job and I as a fan am sick of seeing this s***. I have absolutely zero reason to watch White Sox baseball right now. The few players I do like aren't even playing that good and the team looks dead out there, dead.