kapkomet

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 10, 2010 -> 07:29 PM) Oh CQ! Making a late run at making me name my son Quentin. OH... CQ!

I've always thought and allowed myself to not take things so literally, because there's no way that anyone who wants to go out and say "creationism means 6 days or NOTHING" is just ignorant, and I only say that because of the whole time thing I just said. Our understanding of time is limited by our human experience. To tie "time" to "creationism" doesn't allow for anything else that takes place as we know it. I think that's sort fo what you're getting at when you're talking about science to be a threat to literal creationists. No one KNOWS anything - which is why I say that you can prove something "scientifically" and yet, at some point you have to have faith in science... as weird as that sounds. Could it (six day creationism) be literal? My belief is sure, but I also believe in God, but I also am not ignorant to allow myself to create such a narrow scope. ToE certainly can be "six days" over some sort of time continuum that we as humans do not understand and therefore can be scientifically proven to some extent.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 10, 2010 -> 06:24 PM) Either way you approach the question kap posed, the answer is "no". For evolution and creationism as explanations for the diversity of life, no, they do not ultimately go back to the same starting point. I think that's self-evident and won't expand. For the epistemology behind each viewpoint, again, the answer is no. ToE is held as provisionally true because it is the current best explanation we have for the diversity of life. This was initial based on some evidence and a lot of good reasoning when Darwin first wrote Origin of Species; since then, tens of thousands of scientists have researched the issue for over 150 years and has found more and more evidence to support, modify and expand the ToE to what we have today. Noting again that these theories and explanations are held as provisionally true, not absolutely true. On the other hand, creationism arises from a literal reading of the Bible (or Koran and probably other versions of creationism I'm unfamiliar with). It holds that species were specially created and (depending on the flavor of creationism) have only undergone a small amount of evolution, but certainly not speciation. These viewpoints are not arrived at through maticulous research over decades--in fact, they are held in direct contradiction of such research. Special creation is held as absolute truth based on faith in a literal reading of creation stories in scripture. The concepts of truth and knowledge is markedly different from the manner in which science is conducted. I think Isaac Asimov's "The Relativity of Wrong" and Carl Sagan's "The Dragon in my Garage" illustrate my point far better than I could. Why does everything have to be scientifically proven to be true? Do you have faith in anything? Or is faith something that is groundless? I don't necessarily mean "creationism" faith, either. You have faith that a car will stop when you walk out into the street as a pedestrian, right? Or is that some science? So why does creationism and ToE have to be completely dismissed as one or the other? I definitely am not one that thinks the world was LITERALLY created in 6 days or whatever, but I can allow myself that creationism could be an explanation to the ToE. I don't know... I don't think anyone can know. Balta, I can understand where you're coming from - so do you think that (again) "faith" is some sort of mumbo jumbo bullcrap that can't exist? You can't explain every single thing as a scientific explanation. I just don't think you can. At some point in time, whatever time is, I guess I have "faith" (weird word) that something had to happen to allow whatever this is to begin.

I just asked a question, I didn't make a statement, Strange. NSS was right with what I was trying to ask. If anyone "KNOWS" the answer to that, they're wrong, because I don't think anyone clearly knows the answer to that. I think at its basic element creationism and evolution could go back to the same point. If science "proves" something, great. However, at its base, something that bases a requirement of a hypothesis as X,Y,Z are not true, so AA must be true does require some sort of a leap of faith that something else isn't out therer that's unproven. Right? (Again, I'm asking, not stating).

I'm just going to tell you straight up, Y2HH, the "free speech" thing is a copout. There isn't "free speech" in a privately held forum, and if we all agree that "go kill people" is something we don't want to see, then there's a reason for it. You know we are pretty flexible on things here, and that's one of the fdew lines that we don't like crossed. For you to come back to this forum to make your point is pretty silly, IMO. Just saying.

At the end of it all, doesn't creationism and evolution end up being the same?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:48 PM) I'm not really upset about LeBron going to Miami... I'm upset about Bosh, Wade, and LeBron pretending like they didn't know they were all going to Miami from the beginning, and f***ing with everybody for 2 weeks years. fixed that for you.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:38 PM) His lack of compassion for Cleveland really amazes me. I said somewhere in this thread that his ego is bigger then anything else. Guess what? That was just proven. LBJ is a b****.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:36 PM) We've been takling the same way for 6,000 posts. Or in your case, 12,396 posts... I gotta give you s*** man, you brought it on.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:35 PM) LeBron = ARod Except his little b**** ass got his ring. I hope LBJ doesn't... but man, they probably will.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:33 PM) Guys, this type of post will not be tolerated. Let this serve as a warning. I can't disagree with the post, no matter how tasteless it is. It's true.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:30 PM) Yup. Completely wrong. Shocked. I never thought LBJ was such a p*ssy. Okay, you manned up. Seriously, the whole thing was/is bulls***. I cannot disagree with you.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:29 PM) Well, one thing is for sure, MJ is still going to be known as the best ever. Amen to that. Honestly, that's the one reason I didn't want this asshole to go to Chicago, but yea...

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:29 PM) But I thought it was definitely Chicago or Cleveland? Oops..... WRONG.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:26 PM) oh my god. HOLY s***. I did it. I f***ing watched a half hour of this s***. It's the heroine herooinee...

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:23 PM) "This whole free agent... experience... I'm lookin' forward to it." Great no announcement tonight. Now that would be some funny s***.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:10 PM) HOORAY!!!! He understands. We are good now. But you were still wrong. Har.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:08 PM) I said more than a few times that this one hour spectacle was a bad thing for the NBA. I never said I didn't care where LeBron winds up. I can't disagree with that. From: s***-stirrer extraordinairre.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:06 PM) I actually said Chicago or Cleveland, and I stand by that. You're just stirring s***. I was referring to the fact that there's a one-hour special on him picking his team. It's retarded. And evidently, so are you. Seriously? How many posts do you have in this thread, and it's "retarded" only now? FWIW, you're right... but that's not the point.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:04 PM) THIS ACTUAL ONE HOUR SPECIAL IS RETARDED. NOT THE FACT THAT LEBRON IS A FREE AGENT IN THE NBA. Go back to the Filibuster and take your s*** home. Like I said, you're just pissed that you were wrong.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:02 PM) kap taking his ridiculous routine to every forum now. FYI, I've read this thread long enough. And now the "LeBron's going to Chicago BOOK IT" crowd's going nuts and I call it out? Sorry for being honest.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:02 PM) What? F*ck off dude. The idea that one NBA player can hold the entire league hostage. It has nothing to do with where he winds up. What have you been posting for weeks in this thread? Now it's "retarded". Again,

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:00 PM) "The Decision" This is retarded. Is it? You got f***ing schooled and smoked, my friend. It's retarded now that you ain't getting what you want?

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 5, 2010 -> 07:10 PM) It's an exaggeration, but history class really is that distorted. Texas is just continuing a trend we've had for a hundred or so years now. Again, bulls***. I know, I know... Thomas Jefferson was an evil bastard.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 5, 2010 -> 07:21 PM) Amongst the kaperbole is the truth. IF he had insurance, he may have been better off. If he did not have insurance, no doubt he would have been much worse off. Oh no, our system sucks - remember... you go to the ER, you get turned away. You don't get treated. Oh wait, nevermind.