GreenSox

Which facebook group has all this stuff....I'm willing to risk it.

Because that's just -I don't know what to call it - who the heck does that? And the Sox have done enough in that regard: they downgraded catcher and traded for a first basemen who isn't very good and in a position of non-need. The second trade makes them less competitive and blocks a spot for young player development, and the catcher move arguably might as well.

The point was whether this team can contend in 2019. The only way for that to happen is to start trading these prospects for players like Reamulto and others on 1/2 year contracts...and then signing guys like Pollock, who is injury prone and already in decline at 31. And even with that, it would take a lot of luck. Machado or Harper would be a piece of the core, so I'm all for signing one...but to win next year with one of them is unrealistic and would be damaging to attempt. The only way to build this team into a winner is to build a core of young talent. Right now, the core stands at zero. None of the young players have proven that they are above average starters, much less all star level players. They may become one, they should, but we don't know which ones will and which ones won't. In 2014, they decided that the rebuild/retool was finished, and started trading for rents off of 73 wins. This would be similar.

And then ruin it for 2022 on. This is the nonsense this Front Office pulled in 2014-2016, while they rubbed their lucky rabbit's foot. Adding Machado adds, what, 6 wins to the mighty 62 from 2018? Where are the other 25 wins coming from?

Dick Allen Bucky Dent Wilbur Wood Frank Thomas Mark Buehrle

yes it would be interesting. Prefer this plan to loading up with the Orioles. It also seems to me that any trepidation about competitiveness isn't whether the Sox will be competitive in years 1-2 (they won't be and loading up with Orioles will guarantee it) but in the years after that.

Indeed, it would be nuts even if they sign harper or Machado. Worse than the 2014-2016 Hahn clownshow.

I think we have a decent chance...but if we get one (or both), it will come with an early buyout. I just don't see either one of these guys signing up for 10 years of the Sox until Hahn proves that he can build a winner. That would put a c. 3 year window on contention, which, while reasonable, might encourage the FO to start making trades for veterans to accelerate it. And that spells big trouble.

Sounds like a great guy. But what needs to happen is that either he or Abreu need to be traded. it's ridiculous to have 2 vets covering 1B/DH in a rebuilding situation where young players need ABs.

Maybe not Fulmer over Buehler, but drafting Fulmer and then not giving him the time or having the patience for him to smooth out his delivery says something.

I hear what you are saying, but even if the Sox hit on Robert, it's only 1/10 he's a Harper. No one gets a Harper 2/10 tries. As for getting productive major leaguers, yes, they should hit better than 2/10. And yes, I agree that part of this is to mask and/or energize a rebuild that appears stunted. Well, so be it.

Hahn's best trade was Eaton #1. He's gone that route only once since: Davidson/Reed, which I still think was well intended and worth the risk. Regardless, 50% leaves you a big winner. So why did he stop? Those are the kind of moves this team needs now, 5 years later. They don't need guys past their prime (like Alonso). Re the rebuild, he's already whiffed on 1 major pitching prospect and likely a 2nd; none of the others have proven that they are even mid-rotation guys. There have been no whiffs on the position side yet, but no absolute hits either. Hopefully we see real progress soon.

The pitching didn't exactly shine either.

That would be terrible for the Dodgers.

Lester was about 60% of the cost of these guys. But Astros, Brewers, Braves, As, etc. Indians didn't need anyone like that. You just have to be able to assemble a large group of ascending young players in order to win (harper/machado or not).

It shouldn't though. Other successful rebuilders didn't need FAs at this level (or at this point in the rebuild) to build the core and complete the mission. I think they need them because, well, Hahn is running this rebuild and I think he needs a boost. But it shouldn't.

Kluber, yes. Pollock is one of those mid tier FA who are best avoided, imo. As for Harper, they'll probably have to break the luxury tax, but I think they'll do it with a shorter term deal. Yes that would mean Harper "leaves money on the table" but he'll be 30 when he has a chance to get it back and more.

Burger was a reach and otherwise dubious pick, but, no, the Sox don't need a bunch of rentals. They need to develop a core, if they can.

Exactly.

And that's that.

That may even be a superior strategy to signing Machado or Harper. But when in the world has this FO ever done such a thing? In a smaller scale, Alonso was exactly that type of player - a team trying to dump salary and Alonso a player barely over replacement making $8 million...the Sox sent a prospect. Edwin Jackson and Shields were clear salary dumps, and the Sox are shelling out the prospects (and in those cases, good ones). They just aren't that creative...and thus I hope they sign one of these guys, realizing the risk that they'll start shoveling prospects for 2 year vets (likely overrated vets) to build around them.

Good one.

Hope you're right - that's a light offer.

Don't be stupid, Reds.

Pollock's not what he was.