Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:28 PM) The worst is the gang mentality, it's stupid. I don't care if the mods want to ban people, it's their site, their call, and they seemed like good enough people to me. But it's annoying when a bunch of PC police wannabe mods jump on you. We don't always agree J4L but I'm 100% with you on the SoxTalk staff. They do a great job and really make this the best place for baseball discussions. No doubt about it. I've never had a beef with you or caulfield ( who hates me). I love this board. I can't stay off this motherf***er for some reason. Only person I've ever had a legitimate beef with was Brandofan. And the mods took care of that p****. But I still hate the poster that goes by the name of witesoxfan.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:25 PM) That would be bad. If you can't have arguments over your team, what's the point of posting your opinions? I was posting there in 2007 and I was grilling KW for what had become the failed experiment in putting together a bunch of flame-throwing relievers that weren't really all that good (you remember the bullpen experiment). And I got a PM that said I was being "excessively negative" and there's "no place for that on this board" and I proceeded to leave. That board f***ing sucks.

I'm done doubting the Twins in any capacity. Unless Joe Mauer suddenly slips into a coma I will view them as the favorite until we show otherwise.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:17 PM) What are you still doing over there anyway? You have no reason to post anywhere other than SoxTalk. True. WSI is a horrible board. They have like 15000 Scott Merkins over there. You can't even being to say something negative about the franchise without them threatening to ban you. Makes me appreciate the great work Jason, Heads and all the guys do over here that much more.

It's a great time to have league pass right now. Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Blake Griffin, Eric Gordon, John Wall, Russell Westbrook, ect. Say what you want about the current state of the NBA, but it sure as s*** ain't lacking elite/young talent.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:56 PM) Why do you think they are overrated? Any time you can put yourself in a better position to score is a very good thing. OBP has proven to be the best and most effective way to score runs. Give me a guy with Konerko's speed that can get on base at a .390+ clip over JP and his peak .340 clip. Juan Pierre is not a good baseball player. I believed this in 2006 when he was with the Cubs and I mocked all their fans. And I still believe this. I'll, of course, cheer for JP because he plays LF for my favorite team. But I will not mask my true feelings.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:43 PM) I don't anyone is particular enamored with JP's game (granted I haven't see your conversations with others on this board), but after the All-Star break, JP was solid: .295 average, .357 OBP and 36 SBs to 7 CSs. For a leadoff hitter making $4 million (taking into consideration what the Dodger's are paying) that is pretty good. Chone Figgins was worse last year and the Mariners are paying double than the what the Sox are. JP played very good D and was a strong player after the break. He also added 33 RBIs, too after the break. Is the ideal? No. But at the low price, he is fine. Who out there at a reasonable price is gonna perform better? Obviously there are many players better than JP, but they also command triple his salary. Sometimes you need less than ideal players because of salary restraints. Of all the things wrong last year, Juan Pierre was not one of them. Just because we don't have anybody better doesn't mean that JP sucks any less. How the f*** does a major league baseball player amass 22 extra base hits in 734 PAs? He's terrible. I don't care, And stolen bases have long proven to be overrated.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:18 PM) #Mariners agree to 2-yr, $7 million deal w Miguel Olivo. #Seattle - Morosi. PS. Merkin tweeted earlier Olivo was Sox main targen if AJ signed with Dodgers. I like Olivo. But he's going to suck ass in that park.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 12:17 PM) Even with Beltre and Soriano, I'd say they're still at best in a dogfight for that division with the Rangers, and maybe the A's, right now. They've really been hurt by their prospects not turning into the All-stars that they looked like. A's? With that offense?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:57 AM) It depends on what you mean by "another piece". I don't know. High A guy with decent upside? All about Broxton to me. I'd do it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:56 AM) I thought you were coming around with regards to Juan... Hell no. When I have to give a guy props for at one time sporting a .345 OBP you know he sucks. I hate watching him play baseball. Even when he's playing well he sucks to me.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:50 AM) I think the Dodgers would contemplate the move. They have no logn-term catching prospect and Vicieco is a nice bat. Problem is they have Loney right now and I don't see the Dodgers playing Viciedo in the field so he really isn't a viable option unless Loney is dangled. Even than I'm not certain why the Dodgers would make this move as a whole. One thing to remember is the White Sox have a guy who could make Juan Pierre forgotten about in about 2 years...Jared Mitchell. Unfortunately his injury makes him a much bigger risk but I don't buy into Rogers crap. It seems like other reports have indicated that he showed his speed in bursts in the AFL. And as far as I was concerned, him just playing and getting a feel for things in the AFL was valuable enough. Now he gets to spend an entire off-season further improving his shape and preparing him for what will hopefully be a strong minor league campaign. I'm trying to forget about Juan Pierre right now because he makes me want to hurl. But I agree. Mitchell is one of, like, 2 prospects we have right now that really, really intrigues me. I just hope it doesn't take him forever to bounce back from missing so much time. So are you saying that you wouldn't deal Dayan, Flowers and whatever scrub for Broxton and maybe another piece? That's where this all started for me. I hate hypothetical trades with no substance like Megatron hates Optimus prime. But I'm buzzed and bored and had to speak my mind.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:41 AM) I have no issue with trying that. He has a very strong arm and he very well might be able to play left field. If the Sox keep him they need to pick 3B or LF and I'd probably lean to the easier position (3B) and let him have at it. There is no denying that he has quick hands and a live bat. At his age there is no reason to force a move. However, if the right offer was made I'd have zero problem moving Viciedo and I'd say touche to another team. But that would have to be a guy that was going to be able to help us for another few years and be cost controlled. Exactly. If the right deal came about. Flowers means nothing to me. But that's me. Viciedo as the centerpiece in a deal for Broxton? Sign my ass up. But the Dodgers wouldn't do it at this point.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:33 AM) Or he kills in the minors and expands trade options for him. He's young. He also could go to the minors, work on his fielding and replace OV/Morel in 2012. Or mid-2011. Ozzie seemed willing to play him there a bunch. Do you really think he can play a legitimate 3B? Look at him. Cmon, now. Don't be naive. A bench bat? My goodness. We're done now.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:25 AM) Maybe. But Viciedo is the insurance policy at OF/3B/1B, especially long term 1B with Paulie being here 3 years. It just seems like with his current contract, Viciedo is not the type of guy KW would trade off, b/c DV's not a drafted farmhand and instead more like one of KW's crafty acquisitions. So he rots in the minors? Makes no sense.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:23 AM) You're going to rule Flowers out simply based on the parameter that he is in our system? C'mon now. I'm ruling him out based on the fact he hit .220 at AAA as a 24 year-old and is at best mediocre defensively. I don't care that he was voted the best defensive catcher in the Southern league in 2009. I was voted the smartest guy in a sea of idiots once. Not really, but you get the point.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:21 AM) Based on how tightly they held onto Viciedo last trade deadline (when they were desperate enough to even pay Manny tons per game)...there's no way they trade him now for a reliever. That was last year. Different set of circumstances now. Mainly the giant anaconda in the room named Adam Dunn.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:09 AM) and he's the biggest one to lose. Viciedo by himself I wouldn't trade for a reliever unless it was a truly top line closer, even then I'm not sure. But then I tend to think of most relievers as crap shoots, and I like Viciedo a lot. Flowers going now is selling low, I'd bet he rakes in AAA this year. What is a truly top of the line closer? Rivera and??? There's just not that many to begin with. We all knew from day 1 Viciedo wasn't going to be a 3B. With PK/Dunn in the fold for the next 3-4 years, there's no spot for him. Bullpen obviously needs some warm bodies. I wouldn't trade Viciedo for just any reliever, obviously. But a talent like Broxton, who I believe is only 25, would definitely be worth it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 11:06 AM) Torre also killed his arm by trying to have him pitch multiple innings. There were games I watched where there was no excuse for him to still be on the mound. Even in a down year, he still K'd well over a better per inning. Velocity was still 95+ (though down a bit from the nearly 98 he was popping in '09). BB rate was up a tad and the LD rate was considerably higher. .370 BABIP. I just see it as him having a down year. He's 26 and the stuff is sick. If all it took was Viciedo and two bums I'd be all over it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:57 AM) I think you guys are giving up a bit early on Tyler Flowers, especially considering we're seeing a real shortage of quality catchers right now...6 years of cost-controlled catching seems pretty valuable to me right now, even if it is at just above replacement level. I have no faith whatsoever in this organization to develop position players, let alone a catcher. I don't know what happened to Broxton last year. But from 2006 through 2009 he sported a 2.79 ERA, a 1.12 WHIP, a K/9 of nearly 12 and an ERA+ of 154. Not sure what his contractual status is. But he's one of the few relievers I'd have no problem with dealing Viciedo for.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:52 AM) I agree, I think that package is more than I'd be willing to trade for any reliever. It is? Flowers and Teahen both suck at this sport. Viciedo would be the only loss.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:37 AM) Dayton Moore only loves acquiring former Braves players and guys who can't get on base. Are you implying that Jeff Francouer is not a great acquisition (did I spell that right?).

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:42 AM) Not only his picks but his arm. Konerko is probably the best 1B I've ever seen at turning the 3-6-3/3-6-1 double play, it's incredible how many first basemen can't make the throw to second base but Konerko turns it flawlessly just about every time, it's the kind of thing you really tend to appreciate when you watch a lot of baseball. When looking at Konerko's UZR it just means so little to me, we all know he's not a very good athlete and is slow as s*** so he probably doesn't have great range but in the grand scheme of things there aren't a lot of balls hit into the first basemen's zone anyway, in a given year you can have 40% less balls hit to the 1B than the 3B based on the incredible difference in handedness of pitchers and hitters and then you have the added factor of a first basemen's placement (holding a runner on, playing back and such) it just means so very little. And even then; sure Konerko was around a -14 last year but for his career he's very rarely wondered too far from zero and we've always been warned against placing too much value in a single seasons' UZR, there's so much fluctuation in the numbers you need a few season's worth of data to draw any conclusions. Basically: I find it difficult to knock Konerko's defense when I'm so damn impressed watching him play the field compared to a lot of the 1B I see out there -- and I do watch a ton of baseball -- when one season's worth of a flawed metric is telling me he sucks. I really wish you and qwerty would stop hibernating for weeks at a time (months in qwerty's case). And my brother Ace hasn't been around as much either.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:30 AM) With the rays seemingly looking to deal Garza; I think the white sox match up very well. The rays need a 1B and DH that are cost controlled, and once the bartlett deal goes through in the morning they will have a little bit of money to sign a closer for one year to fill out their bullpen possibly even Jenks. I think viciedo + quentin and maybe a high upside relief arm for garza is a distinct possibility. I like Garza. But why exactly do we need another SP right now when we've already got 50+ million invested in our current rotation?

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:30 AM) Holy crap, we have Jason referencing WAR, what in the hell is going on? lol. I mentioned that the other day. In 5 years will see wOBA, WAR and UZR listed instead of BA, HR, RBI when watching games on the tube. And honestly, I'd love it.