Marty34

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 06:46 PM) Stay wrong. What would really help the cause is some irrelevant statistics from 2004. You could help out in this regard.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) Lol...I'm not going to apologize to someone I think is purposely going out of their way to get a rise out of people. If my conditional apology hurts my Internet reputation so be it. Stay classy.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 03:19 PM) So you have no logical explanations then? Didn't think so. The idea that you would tie an apology to something as silly as a "logical explanation" for my opinion that Juan Pierre will be better than Viciedo for the remaining 2 months of the season against right-handers does not reflect well on you.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) True or false. You want to trade for Juan Pierre and play him in LF against RHP? What position do you actually want him to hit in the order? 9th? That kind of defeats your whole argument...if he's such a great hitter against RHP, shouldn't he hit 1st or 2nd? Why do you make stuff up? I.E. "You probably think ..."

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 01:16 PM) Viciedo's OPS against RHP this year is .673. That's higher than the .621 and .642 OPSs Pierre had in the 1,000 ABs against RHP prior to this year. I want you to tell me why Pierre is doing so much better this year against RHP and why I should expect his 2nd performance against RHP (for us) to be better than what he did in 2011 & 2010. If you can provide logical reasons, I will actually apologize for my comment earlier. Otherwise, you are completely ignoring his recent trends and overlooking what should be obvious regression for him in the 2nd half. It takes a big man to offer a conditional apology.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 01:08 PM) Now he's an insurance policy? You keep advocating he get 65-70% of the at-bats in LF and come up to the plate more than anyone but DeAza. Heck, you probably think he's a better leadoff hitter than Alejandro because of DeAza's 15/23 stolen base success rate, which is quite similar to Juan's in 2010 and 2011. Why do you make stuff up?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) You're a f***ing joke if you're honestly suggesting Pierre over Viciedo in any capacity. Pierre put up .621 and .642 OPSs against RHP the last two years. Unless you think he's suddenly found the fountain of youth, he's going to regress significantly in the 2nd half. On the other hand, Viciedo has a decent chance to improve in the 2nd half. There is no debate here. Had you chosen a respectable player for your platoon idea, people would have been more willing to listen, but most would have ultimately disagreed. However, you're clearly trolling and went with the idea that would cause the most anger on this board. A respectable player is going to cost a respectable return. Pierre might come cheaply which was the whole point of the idea. A cheap insurance policy.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) I just read through what I missed in the thread. This is still going on? Seriously? Marty, why is this still going on? Pierre is not coming back to town. Who cares which guy has more outs vs RH pitching? Juan Pierre sucks at baseball. I will give you that Viciedo is bad vs RHP but at least there is the chance that DV will hit for power off of RH pitching. This whole thread is nauseating though because of the Pierre discussion. My god just end it already. Pierre sucks at baseball. Still an upgrade over Viciedo against RH'ers. The reason this is still going on is because people are defending Viciedo instead of saying yeah, he struggles mightily against RH'ers at this point in his career. Can't say anything remotely bad about Viciedo.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 12:05 PM) Perhaps you missed this the first time. Who has more outs versus right-handed pitchers in 2012 Pierre or Viciedo?

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 11:46 AM) Marty, if you were to be totally honest with us (tall order), would you say you truly believe Juan Pierre will continue to perform at a level at or near his current 2012 pace? If so, I'll vehemently register my disagreement but stop arguing. I think he will continue to get on base at a far greater clip than Viciedo against RH'ers for the rest of the year.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 11:42 AM) Oliver has been amazing this year.. Pierre sucks dude. Well how would you describe Viciedo's play?

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) That OBP difference is countered by Viciedo having more HR, more RBI, and having a much better arm in LF. Viciedo is also a young talent who is improving and you're risking stunting his growth by platooning him. Stunt his growth all you want because getting a guy with a .385 obp when you are in a pennant race is worth it

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) And what place are the Phillies in the standings again using Juan Pierre prominently in their line-up? Same place Toronto is with your guy Darren Oliver.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 11:31 AM) No, at very least he would cost us a ridiculous amount of outs, like he did when he was here last time. At most, he still is someone who doesn't really help the team. Less outs than Viciedo though.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) Which has nothing to do with trading Viciedo, especially to advocate for Juan Pierre, when his faults are worse than what you are wanting to get rid of Dayan for. Pierre has been getting on base against RH'ers in 2012 much better than Viciedo. At the very least, he'd be a cheap insurance policy.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 10:25 AM) Have fun in your own exercise in futility. If we would have done the same thing in the beginning of 2009, Your #2 starter, your closer, your DH, your starting CF, your starting RF, your starting LF, as well as the #4 and #5 starters, plus pretty much all of the bullpen would not have been in the organization. Odds are most of the 2015 team isn't in the system yet. Precisely my point.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 10:10 AM) I can't believe people are still using that marching line. At the end of the day, the farm systems results are speaking for themselves right now. BA might not like it, but the Sox farm system is paying off in spades. Myth Busted. Project the Sox 2015 starting lineup and rotation from the players currently on their major league roster and in their system.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 10:00 AM) My idea for getting Pence is more for next season.. Right. The problem is the rotation needs to be better to win a World Series. I'd sooner trade Jordan Danks to gert Greinke, but that isn't likely to happen.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:54 AM) Given Marty's "ALL WIN NOW!" meatball caveman philosophy, why not throw every prospect we have at a marginal improvement at 2b? We could give Colorado Viciedo, Nate Jones, Castro, Mitchell, Thompson, and Molina for Scutaro, and that'd help us win games because 2B would be performing better. See, ultimately there's a limit. Your protecting the WORST farm system in MLB by most accounts. Keep Viciedo and what's around him in 2015? You prospect guys slay me.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:55 AM) So we're getting way below average offensive production from him, we've had 3 full seasons to watch him progress (or lack thereof)... There are 17 2B ranked ahead of Beckham. Gordon is 18th. Only 3 are behind him, Ackley, J. Weeks and Andino. 1 Robinson Cano NYY 350 61 112 27 1 21 55 1 2 33 55 .320 .381 .583 .964 2 Aaron Hill ARI 333 41 100 21 5 12 41 7 2 27 51 .300 .355 .502 .857 3 Neil Walker PIT 328 47 99 21 0 7 44 7 4 36 75 .302 .370 .430 .799 4 Ian Kinsler TEX 377 65 104 26 3 10 43 15 6 34 50 .276 .341 .440 .781 5 Jason Kipnis CLE 344 53 95 10 3 11 51 20 3 39 60 .276 .352 .419 .771 6 Brandon Phillips CIN 323 49 93 15 1 10 50 5 0 18 42 .288 .331 .433 .765 7 Jose Altuve HOU 337 50 99 21 4 5 27 16 5 18 47 .294 .337 .424 .761 8 Omar Infante MIA 310 41 88 23 2 8 33 10 1 11 40 .284 .309 .448 .757 9 Dan Uggla ATL 303 55 67 15 0 12 46 1 2 58 101 .221 .353 .389 .743 10 Daniel Murphy NYM 328 34 96 25 2 3 43 6 1 20 43 .293 .331 .409 .740 RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS 11 Dustin Pedroia BOS 305 41 81 19 2 6 33 6 3 26 40 .266 .326 .400 .726 12 Kelly Johnson TOR 312 42 75 9 2 10 37 10 1 43 94 .240 .331 .378 .709 13 Danny Espinosa WSH 321 44 77 22 2 7 26 14 4 27 100 .240 .311 .386 .697 14 Howard Kendrick LAA 309 34 86 13 2 5 32 6 5 17 66 .278 .315 .382 .697 15 Marco Scutaro COL 346 43 95 14 3 4 25 7 2 23 34 .275 .325 .367 .692 16 Darwin Barney CHC 305 38 80 18 2 4 26 6 0 18 29 .262 .306 .374 .679 17 Rickie Weeks MIL 315 38 63 17 2 9 33 6 0 48 107 .200 .315 .352 .668 And yet a 23 year old ALREADY providing average offensive production (OPS-wise, he's above, LF is around 730) is our biggest problem??? I don't like Beckham. I just wanted to see your response.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:42 AM) You mean like we've developed Gordon Beckham? What is your position on Gordon Beckham's future with the White Sox, Marty? I like Beckham.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:26 AM) Why do you hate on him so regularly? The kid is 23. He could still be in the minors, and no one would really think twice about it. He is putting up one of the best lines out there for a kid his age. Kids like Dayan aren't a dime a dozen. He makes too many outs and a big revenue team like the Sox doesn't have to wait 2-3 years to develop a LF 'er.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 09:18 AM) You're honestly going to compare Brent Morel/Youkilis to Juan Pierre/Dayan Viciedo?????????????????? You're being disingenuous. Gordon Beckham has had 3 full years to prove himself and he's 26. His OPS is 17th/21st of qualifying 2B. His career batting average at USCF is close to .225. Yet you continue to want to pick on Viciedo. You also aren't for platooning DeAza, Dunn and AJ. Have you looked at their splits vs. LHP? The White Sox have a better record against RHP than LHP. Why is that? Why do you defend Viciedo so adamantly?

Don't they have a lower level? I don't want him rushing his way back thinking he's needed.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 18, 2012 -> 06:29 AM) I'll say this much for you: you're persistent. But you have to face reality. The Sox will not be platooning Viciedo with the likes of Juan Pierre because he doesn't hit right-handers as well. And you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. In one breath you're saying Viciedo should be used in a trade for a starting pitcher because he's a good trade piece. Then you're saying he has to be benched 50% of the time to give the team a better chance at winning. At this point in his career he is an offensive liability when there is a RH'er on the mound. Can that change over the course of time, sure You're the type of prospect person that I do not understand. Thank goodness Morel hurt his back or we'd be 2 games out and you guys would be clamoring about how "we're still in it" and "he hasn't cost us any games", "his development is important." In the White Sox current position, you play to win the game. Any edge you can get trumps player development. This franchise doesn't have enough World Series to fritter away this year's golden opportunity to of all things player development.