Marty34

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 25, 2013 -> 04:07 AM) Then good luck replacing 40 homers and 100+ walks. That's, like, 260 bases you have to make up for, somehow, some way. Seriously...good luck. Do we get Dunn's salary back? I'd rather have that to spend than Dunn.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 04:26 PM) I'm aware of how it started and progressed. I didn't ask that. I merely stated that the reason you get called on is because you fail to back your bold assertions, instead trying to turn them around and change the topic when you get to a point of having to explain your assertions. It was explained earlier in the thread.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) These are the kinds of responses people have called you out on before. Answering a question with a terribly vague, generic, somewhat unrelated question of your own to change the topic and veer off course. If you are going to make bold assertions, you need to be able to back them up. It all started with Viciedo needed to be platooned then the response was "you wanted to trade for Greinke" and it ends with "what 3 win player do you platoon Viciedo with."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 12:48 PM) Who was going to be a 3 win player in platoon situations over two months that the Sox could bring in, and what would they need to give up to get them? Why fix any problem?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 11:10 AM) I guess I just disagree that a platoon partner for Viciedo was their biggest need. Third base, IMO, was way more important, and I'm fine with KW shoring up the bu,llpen and adding a starter, which he did. Platoon partner for Viciedo would have helped last year, but it had to be 4th or 5th on the list. Platooning Viciedo was the easiest problem to fix. It amazed me that they kept sending him out there against RH'ers when he was so overmatched. I thought it was because they were trying to keep his trade value high, but after the deadline he continued to contribute to sucking the life out of the bottom of the order vs. rh'ers.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 10:35 AM) Huh, I dont remember Greinke looking that much different than Liriano when the Sox bombed him out of the Cell in his second start. The place where he hated to pitch. Fair enough.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 10:20 AM) I don't think the Sox record in Liriano's starts was much different than the Angels record in Greinke's starts. Advanced metrics would show Greinke the better pitcher, but for 12 or 13 starts, the wins and losses during their starts, especially since they obviously were rentals, would be a very meaningful number. It really doesn't matter if you win 6-5 or 6-1. Liriano was a bullpen killer with those 5 inning starts.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 10:19 AM) your reason? Grienke was much better than Liriano and a Juan Pierre/Connor Jackson platoon would have replaced Viciedo adequately.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) Viciedo would have had to be included in a trade for Greinke. He wasnt going to Milwaukee for minor leaguers Sox still win the division. Liriano was awful.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) Juan would not have been platooning. We both know that. Your reason?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) Who do you think we could have traded for Grienke? If they would have traded for Grienke they win the division. If they couldn't make a deal for Grienke they still win the division if they sit Viciedo v. rh'ers the last two months.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 22, 2013 -> 09:58 AM) IIRC you were gung ho for Grienke at the deadline. and your second "want" was Juan Pierre as a platoon. I dont really think they would have won the division if either of those deals were made That would have been more than enough to make up a 3 game difference.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 05:30 PM) Yes, this. I don't understand the connection between those two sentences. I didn't think KW did a great job at the deadline last year. Had they addressed their easiest correctable issue, a platoon partner for Viciedo, they may have won the division.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 05:02 PM) I LOVED how KW handled the deadline last year. Those acquisitions were very close to getting us to the playoffs and they cost us NOTHING. Play those few months out a bunch of times and I bet we make the playoffs at least half of them. We had a very real chance -- all we had to do was not collapse at the end -- and we sacrificed almost nothing for the foreseeable future. I don't think we'll be in the position we were in last year at the deadline in the next 2-3 years. For that reason, I thought he should have done more like find a platoon partner for Viciedo for the last two months

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 04:37 PM) That depends upon their position in the standings (both division and Wild Card), the number of teams ahead of them, and the team's record. If they're in 2nd place in the Central but 7+ games out of the Wild Card and division, you sell; if you are in 3rd place in the division but 2 games out and tied for the 2nd Wild Card spot, you trade for small upgrades. The key to all of it is that you don't give up premier prospects unless it's someone who will be with the club long-term and is worth it. Giving up Trayce Thompson for a reliever would be suicide, but I strongly, strongly doubt Hahn does so. You have to do one or the other. No half-measures at the deadline like last year.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 04:17 PM) Totally. I agree, we have the beginnings of a core we didn't have a couple years ago. That's sorta my point: I think the quickest way out is to stay the course, keep acquiring cost-controllable talent, keep making the organization healthier, don't chase shiny things to try to break out today. It sucks, but the quickest way might be a 2-3 year plan that could turn into 4-5 is everything doesn't break right. Being that team in the middle really hurts around the trade deadline. Do they keep guys like Rios, Peavy, Floyd, etc ... if they are on the fringe of a playoff spot if they can get something of value for them?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 03:24 PM) I think it's just REALLY hard to win a WS because there are so many things that have to work out beyond your control. Surely, a better team has a better shot, but the pool of teams in the middle that are merely "competitive," I believe, is much larger than we used to think. And if you're going to make a sacrifice to your future to imrpove the present, you better make sure that improvement is actually enough to boost you OUT of that massive middle group. I think the evidence shows that being aggressive just to claw your way up a spot or two doesn't help as much as it may seem li8ke it should. What's the quickest way out of this mediocrity? If things go right with Sale, Danks Quintana, and Santiago there is an opportunity to build a team that can have sustained success. If things go wrong with those four we could be looking at a 3-5 year rebuild.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 12:22 PM) Kenny Williams did last year. Rick Hahn did the day they promoted him. He will again at Soxfest. What did they say the plan was.

I think Sox management should articulate its plan. That they don't makes me question if they have a clear direction.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 10:47 AM) This is REALLY digging to find something to complain about. You say that like we don't have any depth in our bullpen. I don't see it as complaining. Lindstrom needs to be handled with care. I think it would be best if he split the set up role with Crain meaning I'd rarely like seeing him and Crain in the same game.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 09:55 AM) In your opinion I wrote it, so I guess it would be my opinion.

Passan is making a strong case for an 85-90 loss team. Hard to argue against.

Lindstrom's 50ish innings make Crain look like an innings eater. Ventura is going to have to handle the pen better than he did last year for this move to be a good one.

Didn't see this anywhere thought it would be worth posting.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 07:10 PM) His name is the loser of the 5th starter audition. It will almost assuredly be Quintana or Santiago. I'd prefer the loser take his regular turn at Charlotte rather than be long man.