fathom

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 04:14 AM) I half-believe that you make these posts in an effort to get momentum on your side with regard to "Ozzie sucks!" No, I know that there's some people on here that hate him no matter what, some people that would never dare criticize him....and some people that just like to bash Greg Walker or our minor league system.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 04:07 AM) Danks fastball is good. What're you talking about fathom? His fastball sits around 89-90 mph. When we traded for him, he was supposed to consistently throw 93 mph. Just ask flash about this.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 04:05 AM) Hey Fathom, Please stop trying to manufacture some outrage over Ozzie Guillen in an effort to get him fired. Sincerely, Gregory Pratt Where did I say I'm trying to get him fired? I know that nothing I type is going to have any impact on that type of decision either. All I was saying with my initial post is that it's time for Ozzie to right the ship. Things have been going downhill for far too long. I just want to see a better effort from basically every single member of this organization (besides Jenks right now), and Ozzie's at the top of the underachieving list. QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 04:08 AM) Or maybe it's time for you to realize you have a silly blind hatred for Ozzie that makes you very annoying sometimes? I mean really, what the heck is Ozzie supposed to do when the ENTIRE offense can't hit for this damn long? .232 as a team? Is Ozzie supposed to make established vets like Konerko/Dye/AJ/Crede hit? Is it Ozzie's fault that Iguchi was hitting .221 just a week ago? Uribe? Mackowiak? Cintron? Ozzie's fault, too? What's he supposed to "prove"? Make this team play with energy and confidence? So you know for a fact he's not doing that? I'm not saying Ozzie has been perfect this year. No manager in baseball has been. But it's mostly, and I know this is a concept that's hard for you to grasp, on the players. I guess I just won't read Ozzie's quotes about how he feels the guys aren't having enough fun. It's real funny too, because I thought my first post in this thread was as even-tempered as I could write about him right now. So are we saying that if the Sox go 68-94 this year, it has nothing to do with Ozzie? Just how bad does this team have to play in order for him to get even the slightest bit of criticism?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:49 AM) This is a stupid thread. We're blaming Ozzie for the bad roster? "Just go out and get the team to play with energy!" What, should he get them amphetamines? Why do so many people believe that the manager has no say about the roster?

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:27 AM) Guillen feeling "embarrassed" and not himself. Doesn't like coming to the ballpark everyday, watching this ballclub, then having to talk about it afterwards to the media. I don't how he's going to last through the season, to be honest. When's the last time he was around a losing team? From what I can recall, every team he's been associated with in his coaching career has been a division contender.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:24 AM) None of your ideas would change the fact we are a bad baseball team though, and you know that as well as I do, that is just shuffling the furniture on the Titanic. Your point about an Ozzie-led team never going through an extended slump is well taken, but that was a myth perpetuated by the parrot in the booth and you know that too. Ozzie did enough last year to make me never argue whenever he is fired, but this year Kenny has done enough to make me never argue whenever he is fired. You should have seen enough of my posts to know that I thought KW did an absolutely horrible job this past offseason. I just want to see Ozzie try different things. He refused to make changes last year when Pods was brutal and Mackowiak was losing games in CF. What does Ozzie have to lose right now? Let Mackowiak lead off. Let Iguchi lead off. Hell, really shake it up and let Thome lead off....he's our best OBP guy and it's not like he has men on base much of the time anyways.

QUOTE(briguy27 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:18 AM) or joe girardi as manager No way would I ever let him get around young pitchers. He's to young pitchers as Michael Jackson is to young kids.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:17 AM) I still want you to explain to me what tangible things Ozzie can do to somehow fix this. It doesn't exist. He can't just "light the fire" right now, we have a bad team. Place the blame for this year on KW, a man who has a much longer track record than Ozzie at being bad at his job. - start using Logan as our main lefty specialist - use Jenks in situations where we need a big out in the 8th if we're winning or 9th if we're down by a run - stop letting Owens leadoff - break up the slow foursome of Thome, Dye, AJ, Konerko - tell KW to send Andy Gonzalez down - send down Masset to become a starter, and let MacDougal work things out All I know is that for 2.5 years, we were told that an Ozzie-led team would never go through an extended period where they didn't show a lot of fire. All I'm saying is that I want to see results on the field, and not in the press. I'm not calling for him to be fired, even though I think he's feeling miserable about our direction. QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:18 AM) Come on now. You know damn well that most of the time, the manager doesn't deserve the blame. They're just the guinea pigs. And the fact that Walker is still here is what should really be alarming. And could that be because Ozzie has a hard time ever throwing his friends under the bus?

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:11 AM) You think Anderson would make any difference on this team right now? He should have been the 4th outfielder on this team, and be used as the defensive replacement for guys like Dye. We all knew that Pods and Erstad would eventually get injured. Terrero has been decent out there....but Owens is just a disaster.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:10 AM) I'm sure your comments to Ozzie will make this team play a whole lot better. Seriously fathom, I wouldn't expect this from you, though you are the biggest Ozzie-criticizer. There is still no way you can blame Ozzie for this teams abysmal play, IMO. All the blame should go on KW. Ozzie can't go out there and pitch for our relievers or swing for our hitters. These are grown ass men and they shouldn't need to be motivated to play to their potential. This s*** is just getting ridiculous. When a team is failing in every aspect, the manager will get blamed. How he gets none of the blame is baffling to me. This team is playing more lethargic right now than any of the "corpseball" teams did. Were you calling for Manuel's head a few years ago? I still wonder what caused Merkin to mention the rumors that Ozzie was losing the clubhouse about a month ago? And by the way, this was about as tame of a post I could make about Ozzie right now. I would love for him to prove to me he still has the fire and still has the ability to lead a team.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:07 AM) For his next rebuilding effort, he should probably avoid players who've performed well in Mexican Leagues --without stellar minor league numbers -- or who were drafted high and had yet to reach their potential. And we need to buy new radar guns. How inaccurate must our guns have been to state that Masset can throw 96 mph and Danks can throw 90 mph?

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:06 AM) Now the real question is: can Ozzie do ANYTHING with the talent (or lack there of) that this team is built with? I'm not an Ozzie fan, but lately, he just doesn't have any better options. Eventually, Kenny needs to man up and stop talking a big game too. This falls about 75% on his shoulders. Ozzie had a lot to do with who's on this roster also though. He's the one who needs his "speed" guy at the top of the order. He's the one who didn't want to give Anderson an extended shot this year. He's the one that never gave Gload the chance to see what he could do as a leadoff hitter. In no way am I blaming Ozzie for how bad this talent level is....but he isn't exactly out of the loop on these decisions.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:04 AM) THANK YOU! Finally someone who actually understands. There are very, very few "save" situations for this club now, and therefore Bobby could sit on the bench and rot. Id rather take my chances bringing him in in the 8th down by 1 and atleast have a CHANCE to win in the 8th and 9th rather than put in someone who is going to make it obvious we aren't going to win. Bobby at least gives this team a chance for a comeback. However, he should only be brought in if we're down 1 run in the 9th inning. No reason to waste him if we're down 3 runs....we can't even get that in 9 innings.

It's time for Ozzie to step up and get this team going on the right track. He needs to stop feeling sorry for himself and talking a big game in the media. It's time for him to prove he can make a lineup without having some mediocre slap hitter at the top of the order. It's time for him to shake things up, even if that means drastic things like putting Owens or Mackowiak between Konerko and AJP to break up the automatic double play situation that those guys get themselves into. Basically, it's time for Ozzie to prove that he hasn't lost this team, and that he's the right man to stop this almost year long slump this team has been in. Please stop making comments about if you should be fired or not or what's going to happen in your career. Just go out and get this team to play with energy and confidence.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:57 AM) sox never faced Sampson before, therefore no tape, therefore Greg Walker has nothing to work with. We have so many bad hitters in our lineup right now. I'm absolutely convinced that Walker needs to go, and get someone new in the hitter's ear. I'm still wondering what Ozzie brings to this team right now?

Flash....I can't believe you were expecting a lot of runs tonight. Going down without even a fight. Terrero with the perfect example of a team that just has no clue how to do things right.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:47 AM) You still didn't answer my question of how we're expected to match the rotations within the division in 2008 and beyond. We're going to dominate with 10 #4 starters! Meanwhile, the Tigers have the potential to have quite a few #1 starters, as do the Twins.

Fields could face Lidge 100 times, and he'd probably K 90 times. QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:45 AM) Future All-Star Josh Fields completely whiffs on two sliders. Currently 0/11 on the season, and proving once again how pitiful this organization is at producing talent. The talent level we're putting on the field right now is the worst in a decade. Half the team wouldn't be in the majors on a high quality team. I hope KW is satisfied that he traded Garcia, Gload, and McCarthy, and he only got one guy who can contribute to the 2007 team. Any word on Jerry Owens? At least we don't have to listen to Hawk tomorrow.

Double play #30 for AJP as he chases ball 4.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:38 AM) Russell has fallen off a cliff recently. Whatever he had earlier is obviously gone. Gonzalez better not falter one bit. His presence is key to our future, whether or not he's a future #2 or #4 (as people seem to believe). Still wondering how we're going to match the pitching staffs within the division. De Los Santos is still too raw, and too far away. At this point, I want to know how we'll match the hitting. The Indians and Tigers are going to have top-notch offenses for a long time. We need jphat back Ha...and now Jenks is getting up when we're down 3?

Adam Russell with another bad game. I'd like to see them try him at closer.

Terrible game for Thome. He's been worthless this season against LHP.

Our minor league players that have joined the big league team (Molina, Sweeney, Owens, Fields, Gonzalez) are now 16-108 this season with like 5 extra base hits. Yes, our future looks amazing! QUOTE(DaGame2584 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:21 AM) All I can say is thank GOD we had 2005! Amen!

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:15 AM) Why do I think we're getting close to calling one of the JAG trio up to try and help the bullpen? Might as well....give us something to look forward to. Masset needs to be sent down and given a chance to start.

Haha...this is the worst I've ever seen the Sox play for an extended stretch. QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 02:12 AM) Nick Masset is an example of why I fear Williams attempting to receive anything of value for any of of players in the coming months. Receiving Danks for McCarthy obviously appears to benefit us, atleast this early, but Masset and Rasner have hardly been the additonal pieces one would expect production from. Rasner to a lesser extent, yes, but still -- the trade is equivalent to taking one step back, one and a half steps forward. We're not improving our team much. Next trade Williams makes, it needs to obviously benefit our club. With more potential than Masset and Rasner. This team is so far from being good, it's scary. I don't want KW or Ozzie anywhere near a rebuilding team. I still think we should try and trade Thome to the Yankees for Cabrera, Proctor, and a good prospect like Betances.