fathom

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:48 PM) Yeah our defense is atrocious, I haven't even got to that, lol. It's called being unathletic and aging. It's sad to see how teams have easy it is for teams to score on gappers against the Sox.

I really wish we could get Anderson back up to the majors for an extended time this year to see if there's anyway he can be a starter for the Sox in 2008.

Here is the bullpen's ERA by player: 3.18, 3.63, 4.63, 4.66, 5.40, 6.61, 6.75 That sucks!

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:35 PM) I only mentioned one situation, hes come in with and without lead. Dont need to rub it in. Not like I was giving all the details. It wasn't directed towards your point exactly. We've actually been talking on this site about how he overthrows in clutch situations, and it results in his ball tailing back down the plate for players to crush. He even admitted to doing that during the Tigers game.

I've been told by a booster for a certain team that Dar's decision had a lot more to do with things off the court than on it.

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:25 PM) Whatever havent been counting, hes had many quality outings this just happen to be one of his poor ones. Pressure situations? Hes come in with guys on base one game in particular I dont remember against who but it was bases loaded and he struck out the side. Huge difference though in pitching with the lead and without the lead.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:25 PM) Well nothing is going to happen in terms of moves until at least July anyways, so they will get their time. And if everybody suddenly wakes up, I'll admit I'm wrong. I just highly doubt it, I mean they can't keep being THIS bad, but they aren't going to recover to career averages. This is like last years starters in terms of our lineup and everybody seeming to have a below average year at the same time. The difference is our everyday players are a lot older, and we have no everyday player help in the minors. And even if we do recover, Cleveland and Detroit are so much better than us that we aren't making it to October anyways. Detroit is a fantastic team. They've had more injuries than we have, and they just keep going out there and playing well. For all the s*** we give the Indians and the Tigers, their bullpens are performing better than our overrated mess is.

I'm officially for the idea of acquiring T. Hunter this offseason. Huge contract or not, all he does is help his team win.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:21 PM) Yeah, but that Tracey thing was nearly a year ago. I wouldn't believe there's tension in the catching situation, Toby Hall can hit a little bit, and he went 2-for-3 yesterday. It just seems bigger because of the Mike North blowup. So Ozzie is in his fourth year, but were there any incidents like with Sean Tracey? And at the time, did anyone mention that COACHES YELL? Ozzie wanted Tracey to stick up for his team. He FAILED, so Ozzie YELLED. It's sports. That cannot have been the first time a manager yelled. Ozzie treated Tracey like s***...I don't know how this can be argued otherwise. There was a lot that went on behind the scenes with Tracey and Ozzie, and I'll always appreciate Razor Shines for how he handled it. Anyways, the whole catching thing seems so stupid. I agree with Ozzie about playing Hall, but AJ seems to be acting like a little b**** about it.

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:20 PM) I meant the series as a whole. I know we rocked Marquis we last saw him I posted that in the beginning of the gamethread. Our offense was hitting better at that point last year than this year thus far. Hes been fairly consistant for them and made good pitches. That was by far the worst Marquis has looked all year. Erstad and Uribe were terrible against him today. Nothing like having what should be your 7-8-9 in AJ, Uribe, and Erstad having to bat 1-2-3.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:18 PM) The funny thing to me is everybody saying we will start hitting. Well first of all, we have the worst hitting coach in the game and a manager that gives away free outs left and right bunting, even in tie games in the 7th inning when a gale wind is blowing out. Second of all, all of our starting pitchers had great track records going into last year, I kept hearing "well when they recover with this offense, we'll be unstoppable!" It never happened. This looks exactly like last year, only in complete reverse. Only difference is we didn't get off to a great start this time, the 2 teams we are fighting with this year might be better than the 2 from 2006, and now even our bullpen is starting to show signs of being pathetic. And I won't even address the incredible, hard to believe that he's still being defended Ozzie stuff again. I'll give you the same advice for tonight that Ozzie gave his troops after his first game with the team: "Go get drunk and forget about it". You know I dislike this current team as much as you do, but you're going to give yourself an ulcer if after every game we lose, you have to make a thread like this. It sucks to lose....so just do what I do and root for every Cubs player to suffer a season-ending injury.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:13 PM) I don't care how much you thought about this since the game ended, there's no reason to fire Ozzie Guillen. For one, we're only five games out IN MID-MAY! There are 123 games left on the White Sox schedule, why blow the whole f***ing thing up after two losses? Guillen won 83 without Maggs and Thomas for the majority of 2004, won 99 and a World Series in 2005, then won 90 last year. So what he pops off at the mouth? Nobody on the team cares. Remember the Magglio-Ordonez-is-a-Venezualen-piece-of-s*** tirade in 2005? Didn't seem to have any negative effects, right? The players didn't exactly love how he treated the Tracey and Garland incident's vs the Rangers last year, and now we have some tension with the whole catching situation. For once, I'd rather Ozzie just focusing on managing and using good strategy.....and stop trying to be funny in the press.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:10 PM) This doesn't answer how do we fix this though, and I am forever grateful for 2005. However I know we aren't going to win anything again with this core, so we should start trading it for what value it has left to try and rebuild, and maybe the new core can help. Keeping people to avoid attendance and interest falling is utter nonsense, if we start losing (which we will, if we firesale or don't firesale, either way), attedance is going down. At least if we get some young parts, we have hope. KW and Ozzie are too proud and arrogant to blow up the team already. They're going to use the injury angle if things get real bad. They'll want to see how we play with Pods and Thome back in the lineup before making any big decisions. I wouldn't be so excited though about seeing us trade some veterans...I'm sure we'll just try to get a AAAA prospect that looked good in the Arizona Fall League.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:05 PM) So what do we do, keep the veterans we have for a ton of money and continue to be mediocre? If you want to win another World Series, we have to sell off parts, because we can't tweak what we have and win anything. Think of it this way....2005 was our one good chance to win the whole f***ing thing, and we did. Be forever grateful of this, because a lot of teams don't capitalize when it's "their season". The window with the core group of Buehrle, Garland, PK, and Crede looks to be done. I'm actually intrigued to see who will be our team leaders in say 2009. My favorite thing to watch the rest of the season will be to see Danks pitch.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:03 PM) A firesale hurts this team for a lot longer than you guys think. Sure it gives you some talent, that may or may not help you. But a fire sale will kill attendance. A fire sale + cubs doing well will bury it. It will taper off later this year. If we are fielding a rebuilding team next year, they will see less renewals on the ticket plans. And without that revenue, the salary of our team will drop. Its a vicious circle. Hopefully they can turn this around. And people are relying on our minor league coaches developing the players into being ready to contribute at the MLB level.

QUOTE(kramer99 @ May 19, 2007 -> 11:03 PM) lets just give up now... i mean, no team could be doing so terrible at this point in the season and make the playoffs right...especially in such a great division!!! Twins Record on May 19, 2006: Minnesota 18 24 .429 9.5 Who won the division last year again? your right...doesnt matter.... lets just give up now You almost prove the point of this thread though (no matter how impulsive I think it is). The Twins made some changes to their roster, and basically kicked off two veterans and added some life to their team. The Twins also had an amazing bullpen that probably blew less saves all year than we have in the first 1/4 of this season.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:59 PM) if the sox get swept, the only thing to do is to admit that the cubs destroyed the sox. I'll just be like "the bullpen sucks". To be honest, Cubs fans, at least ones that I respect (all two of them maybe) act like they don't care about baseball anymore as a way to justify not admitting the Sox won the 2005 WS.

Brandon McCarthy was never the savior that people thought he'd be, but he also might have been the most vital pitcher we had, along with Contreras, during the 2nd half of 2005. He had some huge games that helped stop losing streaks.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:54 PM) if were not making the playoffs, theres no point in keeping dye, crede, uribe, gooch. Of course not, but you have to wait closer to the deadline. If we trade them now, our attendance will be cut in half for next year. Here's the scary part....this team doesn't have just a few holes to fill for the next two years. There's only 5 or 6 guys on the entire roster right now who we can be sure will be here for 2009. Our window is all but closed for being a WS contender. It will be hard to get too upset if we have to rebuild for a few years, as we've been a consistent over .500 team for a long stretch.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) Joe Girardi would make a great new manager, not that anybody is getting fired unless they murder Mike North. I want him nowhere near our Sox pitchers....there's a reason almost all of them have gone on the DL since he started with the Marlins.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:51 PM) This team has 0 shot at making the playoffs, and is full of dead weight. Waiting has no use, at all. We are nowhere near good enough to finish higher than 3rd this year. And fire Ozzie. Add that and that is what i'm basically saying, just in not as calm terms. I agree they won't make the playoffs....but there's nothing to gain by trading away our veterans right now. Flat out, our minor league development sucks. We can't call up anyone that doesn't look like a Little League hitter. I don't want to see Jerry Owens and Ryan Sweeney battle the rest of the year to see who can ground out more. Just be like me with Ozzie....hope he says something stupid.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) Everybody. Manager, players hitting .200, bullpen choking when they finally get runs, all of them. Kenny and a few young guys are the only safe ones, and even that is temporary. We aren't winning anything this year and there is no use keeping all the dead weight on this team. Ironic coming from me, but show a little patience. No changes will be made until Thome returns and we see him play for a month or so. If things are real bad, the trade deadline will be looming, and then you'll see changes.

What is our bullpen's ERA now? Seems like it has to be nearing 5.00. QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) mac basically helped us lose both games even though he didnt pitch today. if he threw the ball the way he was supposed to, then he would have pitched today in the 8th, then handed it over to jenks Good post...MacDougal is a lot better pitcher in the environment we had today, as he doesn't give up many homers. Aardsma tries to be too perfect, and he throws to many pitches down the heart of the plate.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:43 PM) then so do 15 other teams. This team looks like about 15 other teams...some nice parts to it (starting pitching) and then a lot of crap thrown in. When Rob Mackowiak is hitting #5 for you (as he did a couple games ago) you know you have issues. Many of our players are aging, fading stars...and our youngster don't appear to be ready, if they ever will be. We don't really have anyone who runs much and it's hard to score on 3 straight singles when you top averaged hitter is around .255. Cleveland and Detroit are better clubs. Minnesota may be fading out quickly with their injuries, but you never count those guys out. Great post....this offense is really missing some exciting, younger athletic players that can make things happen.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ May 19, 2007 -> 10:38 PM) Each and every positional player and many of the pitchers are playing wayy below their expectations. Out of curiosity, does anyone else ever feel like letting them get some of the blame?? Yep, they deserve so much blame. The thing is, as you know, coaches are the scapegoats in sports since you can't fire all the players. This s*** has been going on since the very start of the 2nd half last year, and it really makes you wonder if this team can be any better than a .500 team. No one should blame Ozzie for today's loss. Pinella severely outmanaged him, but it didn't matter....our bullpen sucks right now.