fathom

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 04:17 AM) I agree with you, but it seems Williams and Co. don't. This francise right now should be at Defcon 4. I never thought I'd say this, but this mess is more of KW's fault than Ozzie's right now. Not only will the Sox likely suck for the next few years, but the Tigers and Indians are going to be incredible.

I still predict next Monday will be the day we see things start to happen.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 04:06 AM) one could say that he his also hinting to his GM and saying give me some f***ing players that don't suck. This team has too many holes....at this point, you just admit failure this year and look to next year and 2009.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 03:59 AM) Ozzie agrees with Fathom... he is a bad manager. Good, then I hope he quits. He's just one of many in this organization who has sucked for too long of a period.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 02:53 AM) Once again, just another step closer until the fire. Amen....if Fields hits a homer and the Sox lose a close game, I'm not going to be upset. I just hope Thome will be able to face the Cubs this wknd. It's probably going to be the last 3 games of the season I really want us to win.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 02:51 AM) Anyone who thinks the Sox can make a run this year with this bullpen is f***ing delusional. Exactly....besides for the closer, it's the worst bullpen I've seen in the majors in a long time. I do love letting a lefty start against the 2-3-4 that destroys lefty pitching.

I really hope we go a different direction for the SS position next year.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 02:23 AM) How is it annoying. He is a 22 year old rookie who is learning on the job. This is a lot easier than watching Felix Diaz give up an 8 spot in the first inning, or Arnie Munoz take a dump on the mound. The stuff is there. The polish isnt. This season is about the kid learning, and taking his lumps. In every level, Danks has gotten pounded in the first half as the young guy on his team. Then he makes an adjustment and then dominates it. The kid learned that he doesnt have to be curve crazy tonight. Throw his fastball and his change and he can do well. You just want to see him get ahead of hitters

It's embarrassing watching our relievers, and then seeing the dynamic stuff that Carlos Marmol is throwing up to the plate.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 02:19 AM) We already know the offense sucks. I am the official soxtalk champion of that cause. Watching Fields hit, watching Danks pitch. Watching Danks pitch is getting annoying. At least he had some more strikeouts tonight than he had been getting recently.

Well, that was predictable. The sad thing is that our relievers, besides Jenks and Logan, don't even have good stuff anymore.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Jun 20, 2007 -> 02:08 AM) Fields hit a homer, so it's all good. Indeed, but the Schmidt injury destroyed my hopes for getting Billingsley.

Just got back to see Aardsma throwing medicore fastballs right down the middle. Also, since when did Danks become Neal Cotts?

There's not a chance in hell we can afford both Buehrle and Garland.

I'd drive Buerhle to the airport for that type of deal, but it won't happen. FWIW, I've heard that Minaya is going to blow teams out of the water this offseason going after pitching. There's been rumors he'll offer Zambrano 20 million more than the next closest bidder.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) Freddy and his 6.00 ERA and injury would have kept Danks out of the rotation, so he wouldn't exactly have helped us this year. It ended up being lucky we made both deals because Danks has been way better than Garcia. Still even if we hadn't have traded McCarthy too, its hard to believe that Brandon wouldn't have been better than Garcia (McCarthy admitted to pressing to try to prove himself to his new team, his numbers were way better before his blister problems). Just getting rid of Garcia and not having to pay him has turned out to be an improvement for this year. I'm not saying they shouldn't have traded Garcia. Everyone on this site wanted him gone. However, I will never be convinced otherwise that they couldn't have received at least one major league ready prospect for him. Since we didn't get any MLB ready talent for him, we all thought we'd use that money or the prospects to acquire a stand-out hitter. Instead, we got a couple of scrubs.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) Well, the market right now is ridiculous, but that certainly doesn't mean you have to participate in it and it certainly doesn't mean you can't win unless you do. In fact, the teams that participate in it the most are the ones who probably cannot win. Ahem, Cubs, ahem, cough. Yeah, Soriano/Lilly/Marquis/Derosa are just killing the Cubs this season. QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:05 PM) If the Sox keep losing, they're not going to be able to support anything over $80-90 million because they'll lose about 750,000 ticket sales. Maybe they should have thought about this before trading Garcia for non-major league ready talent and doing nothing to really significantly improve a team that sucked during the 2nd half of last year.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:08 PM) I see you position man. Your pissed...I'm pissed. All I'm saying is never root for your team to lose. Get pissed. Boo the hell out of them. Throw your remote at the TV. Rant. Never, though, cheer for the other team to beat your team. Boo your team...Boo their team. Trust me, I'm not sitting around hoping that Dontrelle no-hits us tonight, etc. It's more like how I was unable to watch the games from this past wknd, but when I went and checked the score and saw we lost, I wasn't even mad. It was more like "oh well, at least this will speed up the fire sale".

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:01 PM) I'm mad. Im pissed off at them. I hate they way they are playing. Kenny needs to get pissed and do what he needs to do to right the ship and make sure its set for the future. But I will never seriously root for my team to LOSE. I thought we had covered what we meant. Even though I said I'm rooting for them to lose, I'm not happy if they lose. Rather, it's more of an acceptance that them losing is the best thing that could happen. I was thrilled with Saturday night's game with Buehrle and Fields playing well.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 04:43 PM) The problem is that in this market Mark is going to get offered more than 5 years/75 million. The Sox can NOT cripple themselves and be allowed to be raped by the market. Are the fans going to be so forgiving when it's Mark and 8 A ball players taking the field next season, and possibly the next 3 after that? And holy hell if, God forbid, something happens to his arm. I've always said you offer 5/75 by the end of June, and if he says no, then you trade him. If the Sox are planning on going with a payroll in the 80 to 90 million range over the next few years, they're going to be a bad team. Let's face it....an 80 million dollar payroll isn't the same as it was a few years ago, as medicore pitchers are getting 10 million easily these days. All I know is that if we lose Buehrle and Garland, but keep Contreras and Vazquez, then KW better not have a job next year.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 04:53 PM) Another thing... If someone is rooting for the White Sox to lose, that does not make them a bad White Sox fan. They are just not a White Sox fan at all, good or bad. They should move on to another team. The Brewers are in first place. The Cubs are hot (in the media) again. The Indians could use your cynicism. If you think that's true, then I'll counter that anyone who doesn't understand why a Sox fan would want them to lose right now doesn't understand baseball (or the Sox's front office).

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 04:32 PM) I think it's just a case of bad timing. Two years ago, we would be able to sign him for 5/50. Two years from now, the market might settle a bit and the going rate for top tier starters may be 5/60. Unfortunately right now though, it's $15-18 million a year. That's just too much for my liking. Here's where KW has to be willing to make a mistake though. What happens if the market doesn't correct itself over the next 3-5 years? In that case, will the Sox let every FA go because they don't want to "overpay", even though overpaying is the norm? If there was one player who JR and company could take the chance on with what might be a bad contract, it's Buehrle. As someone on Comcast said last night, not only is he less of a risk on the field than most pitchers, but the Sox fans would forgive JR and KW in a heartbeat if Buehrle doesn't live up to his contract.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) If what he said yesterday was just a smokescreen, it would be pretty well known if he was shopping Buerhle. He obviously has not yet. He should go public and try and make it a bidding war. Talk it up, its the way the Sox will be able to cash in at the end. Unless five different scouts were lying in unison this weekend, Mark Buehrle is definitely being shopped around.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 03:01 PM) I really, really think you underestimate the competitiveness of our general manager. I absolutely agree with this.

Phil Rogers finally made a great point last night, and that's when he said that with Vazquez and Contreras signed until 2010/2009, the Sox back-end of the rotation is going to be expected to be their front-end very soon.