fathom

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 06:07 AM) I will admit, right now, I did not see the game. But from what I can tell, Garland was pretty much done after 7. Sending him out in the 8th is just not the right decision. Same story, just another night. You can sub out the players name for another starter, and we have the same situation every game.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:58 AM) I hear you, but the Sox were in every game until the 8th tonight when our brain dead caribbean manager allowed JG to pitch to the hottest hitter in the lineup. Which says to me that the pitching bent but did not break. Face it Fathom, the tribe is red hot at the plate and you're not going to shut them down. You have to find a way to score some runs and stay up with them. I actually thought our pitching was fair to good, considering the opponent. How I wish the Count could've pitched one game... Indians are just a phenomenal team right now, as they're clicking on all cylinders. Right now, the Sox have a very inconsistent offense, inconsistent starting pitching, shaky relief pitching, terrible base running, poor execution, and a consistently poor manager. SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE??

Don't forget that our so-called aces all allowed at least 4 runs, and our bullpen was very mediocre during the series.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:10 AM) What would be fun to do is have a underachieved list too. Rowand has hit incredibly worse this past year than he did last year(like 160 points or so below his OPS from last year), Uribe is not at an .830 OPS, but rather a .730, Marte's control has been horrible all year, El Duque has been anything but unhittable the past 2 months, and perhaps even Carl is in the underachieved category. What would be interesting to see is how people view Podsednik. Did he underachieve or overachieve this year? Or was he about right? You could make cases for nearly every Sox player that they've underachieved. I'm definitely of the opinion that Pods has performed at the low end of expectations for him. If you would have told me that he would have hit .290 this year, I would have never thought that I would be saying how overrated he is.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 05:00 AM) I'll take the whole list minus Garland and Contreras. Depending on your definition of overachieving. If you're talking about doing better than we thought they'd do, then your list is correct. If you're talking about doing better than they should have done this year...then you have to leave Garland and Contreras off, because they have done this year EXACTLY what those guys should be doing based on their talent. Cotts is close in there too. Overachieving compared to previous results and what was expected. Even if Garland and Contreras had the stuff, they've still had years much better than we would have expected.

My fellow Sox fans: which players on the White Sox this season do you believe have overachieved? Shockingly, it's basically a lot of our pitchers that could be considered on this list. Based off of something JimH and Dick Allen said earlier, there's really none of the Sox hitters which have overachieved this season. Here's my overachiever list: - Garland - Contreras - Politte - Cotts - Hermanson

Is it me, or do the Sox give up a lot of insurance runs in the 8th inning compared to the amount of insurance runs they get in close games?

The one promising thing is that I don't think we'll have to worry about the Yanks or Red Sox laying down for each other in the last 3 games, no matter how close they are in the standings.

Garcia is a high paid veteran, and he should be doing whatever he needs to be to be in tip-top shape for the day he pitches. I hope this isn't his "excuse" for his 2nd half slide.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:50 AM) Is that fathom because you simply want to avoid the Sox being the team to blow the biggest division lead in history? If we somehow limp into the playoffs I still want us to win in the playoffs. I want us to find that pitching magic and have fred, mark and jon dominate and lead us to our world series (I know, the odds of me winning the lottery are probly better). Of course I want the Sox to win the whole f***ing thing. However, judging by the way they've been playing in contrast to other playoff teams, I don't think it's a very likely option. We're like those Stanford and St. Joe's college basketball teams in the past. Those teams had the best record all season, yet by the end of the regular season, it was obvious that they had been passed by other teams in comparision to how they were playing on the field/court. The worst case scenario is missing out on the playoffs. Getting embarrassed and swept in the playoffs is 1000 times better.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:44 AM) We traded away our number 3 hitter last year. Every offseason we pick up some junk and hope it works out for us. The lightening in a bottle theory. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. If we don't make the playoffs, and let PK go via free agency, I'm willing to bet that you'll read stuff in the press along the lines of "we're looking forward to adding more speed and gap hitting to the roster".

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:46 AM) One key element in this slide was the loss of Thomas. Certainly they weren't counting on him for 500 AB's but he was still dangerous at the plate and made other hitters around him better. And players counted on to pick up the slack have not done so to the level everyone hoped. IMO Carl Everett will not be here next year no matter what. Every team in the league faces these same dilemnas every year, all year long. Would you suggest that KW and Ozzie bought into the standings too much around the deadlines, and were too willing to settle for what they had? I know that Huff and Griffey Jr. weren't realistic options, but there were definitely some better players available that could have been our DH.

I'm content with this season if they make the playoffs. This team has proven to me they're a solid collection of players, but they're nowhere near the talent level of some other teams.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:29 AM) Every manager makes mistakes, but I would venture to say he has one heck of a lot more game knowledge than anybody on this board ... me, you, whomever. Anyone who thinks otherwise overestimates themselves. Luck has nothing to do with this. I would suggest many of these players have been underachieving all year, not overachieving. Pick out just about any player and for long stretches this year they have underachieved. This is not all about the last 7 weeks, but their underachieving has been magnified because Cleveland is playing so well. Remember, there were also people dismissing Cleveland thru much of this year, saying many in their offense had career years last year, and their pitching wouldn't hold up. I was not one who ever doubted their offense could and would perform as they are, and the difference is not hitting coaches but better hitters. You and I both noted the Indians easy 2nd half schedule, and said they could definitely be a threat for the division. And as you mention the underachieving aspect of a lot of the players, that's one of the main reasons why I'm very disappointed in Greg Walker's guidance this season. It seems like once one or two guys get hot, whoever was swinging well before them, they go cold. Everett batting 3rd for the entire 2nd half is bad managing though.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:26 AM) The thing that concerns me with this team is there appears to be a lack of fire right now. Think about it, a huge win last night, a sellout crowd, your biggest winner on the mound against the opponents #5 starter. I was at the game and if you looked at the White Sox players between innings, between pitches, there was no look of intensity. To a man, this team looked absolutely bored. Tomorrow doesn't look good, but maybe something crazy will happen. Maybe they will try a different approach against Santana, and hopefully, they'll try something different against Haffner next weekend. Here's a thing I've noticed over the last few years with the Sox. After a big win or a big offensive night, the next day, all they do is swing for the fences. Every player seemed to be trying to hit a 5 run homer tonight. It's something that has plagued us for a long time.

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:25 AM) I mean after the sox win one or two they start "oh we have this division locked" then we lose 1 or 2 and "oh s*** its over im out." Even if KC did take the past 2 series if the sox want to get into the playoffs they will take 2 this time. Excellent point. I didn't mention it in the thread, but I thought it was rather petty for Farmer to say the ledge comment after the Crede homer last night. There's still a long way to go, and there will be a lot more up and downs on this roller coaster ride.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:24 AM) Who do we get rid of now? There's been one consistent member of the organization....and he'll be the scapegoat. Kenny Williams is definitely on the hot seat.

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:20 AM) I do, it sucks when a lose from the sox can ruin your day especially after losing such a big lead but whats the use of worrying so damn much? It's a game, if they are meant to make it then they will theres nothing that we can do to help them win or lose a game. Yep, and it's not like the Sox will get relegated from the majors. There will be a 2006 season, no matter what the outcome of this season is.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:16 AM) If you have the right to constantly b**** and complain, seems to me I can present an opposing viewpoint. Again, if that bothers you, sorry. I'd have no problem debating my baseball beliefs with you, but you've seemed to have an attitude with everything I've said on here. And trust me, I don't need to listen/read what anyone else says about the Sox. I confident enough in my baseball knowledge/experience that I form opinions of my own. I was saying the same stuff when we were 15 games up as I am when we're 2.5 games up. We have a manager that has no clue how to strategize in-game, an offense full of easy outs, and pitchers that were overachieving so much during the first half of the year. It was just a matter before the luck ran out. I'm just happy we still have a chance to make the playoffs. Too many people on here have completely abandoned ship, and it's pretty pathetic. Those people can go be Cubs fans, and pleasure themselves thinking about acquiring J. Damon and R. Furcal.

QUOTE(Sox Hustler @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:13 AM) I've told myself im not gonna let them dictate my mood anymore some of you should do the same. I mean afterall we all hoped we got a chance and would be grinding it out right now for a playoff spot in April, thats exactly what were doing now just be glad were up by 2.5. If that's really how you feel, then honestly, I'm happy for you. I see some people say things like that, and it seems like a textbook defense mechanism. It is great though that every game matters.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:06 AM) I was making playoff plans in August. Shows you how f***in stupid I am. And people need to get off of Fathom's back. He's not the reason this team is on the verge of a near epic collapse. If I didn't think I would get banned, I would really say what I thought about this team. And believe me, it wouldn't be pretty. Thanks for sticking up for me, but it's only a select few who feel like jumping on my back. I think a lot of people know that I have been very critical of Ozzie and this team's chances ALL season. I actually have better conversations with more people on this board than ever. Maybe they don't think I'm as big of an asshole as they used to?

QUOTE(forrestg @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:06 AM) Farmer was complaining the whole game about the sox not going inside. Yes, nobody could hit but the final three hitters reminded me of my playing days. Bat in the ninth behind by 8 runs. Why doesn't Ozzie pinch hit Posednik ever when he needs an rbi and finally I'm going to the game tomorrow because when I ordered the tickets I thought the sox would be battling Minnesota they are battling themselves as I see it. Because Pods has a solid batting average with RISP. Of course, he has am amazingly pathetic .294 Slugging Pct with RISP.

My feeling: the White Sox don't suck, but the Indians are a superior team. Add to that fact that the Yankees are playing great baseball, and we're going to need the Yanks or Red Sox to lose about 4 games the rest of the way to have a great chance at the playoffs. Our realistic magic number for the playoffs is 7 right now (adding in the fact the Yanks and Red Sox play 3 at the end).

QUOTE(Harry&JimmyRocked @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 03:00 AM) everyone said it'd be easy with a 15 game lead. They did? I can tell you a few people on this thread who said it wasn't a lock.

QUOTE(JimH @ Sep 22, 2005 -> 02:59 AM) Awwwww ... "I won't post in the game threads for the rest of the year" The team sucked tonite, tomorrow is another day, this is gonna go down to the wire. No one said it'd be easy. And I told you the next day that it was pointless to not post in the gamethreads, as that's where all the conversation took place on games where we lost (since there's no losers thread). I do think it's so great of you to show up in here and pick out one post of mine to critcize it. The sad thing is that I had just got done telling someone not to lose hope. Why don't you do yourself a favor and just put me on ignore? I do love how I seem to be your punching bag, as you didn't have much of a problem with me until the Sox began this epic collapse?