fathom

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:38 PM) Ummm, okay. Basically, that was my way of saying there's no chance in hell he should be traded.

QUOTE(Adam G @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 02:34 PM) Garland for Crawford and a reliever? You're not going to get Crawford and a reliever for Garland. As others have mentioned in this thread, Tampa will almost definitely not be a trade partner for Garland.

KW shouldn't trade McCarthy unless the deal includes Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, or Felix Hernandez.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:45 AM) Kenny can't hear the doubters.....he's got a ring stuck in his ear that is keeping the sound away. But seriously guys, trust Kenny. He took us to the promised land, and will do it again. And also, I think Duque may be getting a bit overvalued due to his Boston performance. He was hurt a lot last year, his regular season ERA blowed (and the only reason his record was decent was run support) and he's a well paid 45 year old. Giving up him, a serviceable arm, and a minor leaguer for Vasquez isn't all that bad (as long as we are getting money back, which we are). IMO Garland is next for an outfieder, and I like the way this team sets up to try and repeat. I think you'll find that almost every poster on this site is thrilled to get rid of Duque and his contract. The tougher pill to swallow is giving up Chris Young. He was by far our most talented minor league prospect. Oh well, next season, it's time for Ryan Sweeney to put up or shut up.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:40 AM) I have one question: Why the hell was this done? Garland for Vazquez makes about a thousand times more sense for both teams. This trade leaves me scratching my head. Makes a lot of sense for DBacks, as they add a super prospect to their already loaded farm system. I think we'll know why the Sox did this move in about 10 days.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:38 AM) To be honest fathom, I don't know what to expect anymore. Yep, and that's why this is fun. What's the worst thing that happens....we don't repeat? Even if they struggle next season, it won't negate from the 2005 experience that we just went through.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:33 AM) Basically imo, we've lost one solid bullpen arm. Damaso was horrendous last year, the Duke is being replaced by Brandon as of right now which is an upgrade, and then there is viz who we are losing. We had 6 bullpen arms that were mainstays in the pen last year in: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, Damaso, and Viz. Now we have: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, and Brandon, so that's 1 arm short from last year. If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in. See, that's where we have our differences. You think Garland stays....I don't think there's a chance in hell he's on the White Sox next season. Thus, your scenario has McCarthy in the pen, which is a real asset. However, I think McCarthy will be in the starting rotation, and our bullpen will be weaker. I also highly doubt Baj has impressed Ozzie enough to make the roster. I know it's a short stint he's had, but Ozzie's the type of guy to form an impression based on a short period.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:20 AM) Trading Vizcaino, Young, Hernandez for Vazquez ALONE?! This is ridiculous. Arizona better be eating a LARGE portion of his salary. I'd rather have traded Garland. Atleast we'd have two capable bullpen arms in Hernandez and Vizcaino. Williams better have a deal situated. One which nets one, possibly two, bullpen arms in return. He may still pull of a trade which addresses these concerns, but as of now, our bullpen is in complete shambles. If it's not obvious Williams is trading Garcia now, I don't know what is. I have to believe he wouldn't deal Vizcaino if there wasn't an option out there for a replacement. Although I did mention the same phrase after Marte's signing, and to this moment, he has yet to be replaced either. First, I'm sure you mean Garland, not Garcia. As I said in a PM recently, I honestly liked the health of the Sox franchise better 24 hours ago than I do right now. Flash....I don't think that Arizona is going to pay any of Vazquez's deal. KW is really, really overpaying here.

I'm not sure if I'm joking or not, but it wouldn't shock me if Ozzie has plans on bringing Urbina to the Sox if the charges get dropped.

I doubt I'm the only one happy to get rid of Duque and Viz. They were clearly out two worst pitchers that we sent out to the mound on a consistent basis. And might I be the first in this thread to say that Baj shouldn't be considered a legit fill-in for our bullpen holes. He's shown nothing at the MLB level to suggest he can be a quality reliever.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:04 AM) Viz was solid, he was some nice added depth. This helps make the money issue a little closer that's probably why he was tossed in. I think this just about guarantees that Jon won't be traded unless it's for extra pitching. Brandon will need to be in the pen now. Even though he's nuts, Tavarez is still an option for an arm in the pen. I disagree with you about Garland's future, and think that he needs to be traded.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:04 AM) the title of the article is also : "Mets lose Vazquez to White Sox" who knows how accurate they really are =P That's the title of it because the Mets were also in the hunt for Vazquez.

BTW, may I just add that I really hope KW has a plan for what he's doing, and what upcoming moves he's going to have to make. Our bullpen needs one or two arms, and I hope he made this deal knowing what he was going to do with Garland/Contreras.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 08:01 AM) This trade just got much worse. According to Newsday, the Diamondbacks will receive Luis Vizcaino along with Chris Young and Orlando Hernandez from the White Sox for Javier Vazquez. No surprise there, as Vizcaino was rumored to possibly be traded to Arizona last season. I'm not too worried about losing Viz.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 07:11 AM) Well no. Ozzie had El Duque starting this year if he was with us. That was just Ozzie being respectful to the veteran. No one really believed that statement by Ozzie.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 07:11 AM) So where do you think he will start? I'm thinking maybe Tampa Bay or Cincinnati. I'm thinking that Garland will be on another team's roster by the beginning of 2006.

There's no way McCarthy starts next season in AAA.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:29 AM) Ya, with the Yanks (or did he not pitch when the Yanks were in the playoffs?) I know he pitched and got bombed in Game 7 of the ALCS.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:24 AM) BMac starting in AAA full-time or filling the last spot in the Sox bullpen? McCarthy has nothing left to prove in the minors.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:18 AM) It better not include Cotts. I trust Williams is a sane man, and those requests earlier were before Chris Young was included. Actually, the deals had Young and Cotts rumored to be in it.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:18 AM) Well one thing we can all agree on: There is never a boring day with Kenny at the helm. Well, besides for the trade deadline when all he got us was G. Blum. What a waste he was.

Quick note: there were rumblings earlier that Arizona was trying to get Cotts included in the deal. Please don't do that KW!

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:13 AM) My ass it's under those conditions. If we're giving up Duque, Young, AND a major league reliever for Vazquez that cash figure better represent a sizable portion of the contract. Or a stud prospect of theirs better be included. f*** this overpaying s***. I'm tired of it. If we're trading Garland, and Blalock (for example) is what we receive, one of their stud pitching prospects are going to be included. I don't care if he's a FA next season. Texas can remain in the perpetual pitching rut unless they accept those conditions. Flash...other GMs love to trade with KW cause they know he'll overpay. Looking at what Arizona has tried to get for Vazquez, I have a feeling KW is going to overpay to get Javier.

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 06:12 AM) lol, there was a picture of Ozzie and JV dropping off some charity goods Yeah, I saw that earlier in the day, which was why I said this.

Maybe someone should try to find a picture of Ozzie and Abreu golfing together last week?