fathom

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 12:56 AM) And if you ignore the bigger picture of trying to get Carl Everett, Frank Thomas, and Jermaine Dye their ABs you never will get it. Why do it at the expense of the most important person in our lineup? Do you really think that we should be sitting Pods as much as we have against lefties?

QUOTE(CYGarland @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 12:51 AM) I agree w/ Pods playing against lefties, and If and when Gload comes back he should play for PK against lefties. Bcause PK has sucked vs. them all year, and Gload hits lefties fairly well, not to mention giving PK the day off. Plus having an all righty lineup vs lefties is great if the lefty struggles against righties, but for Robertson that's not the case, hes actually better aginst righties! I can't stress this more, but I HATE how Pods has basically become a platoon player now. We didn't trade a tremendous offensive player in order to get a platoon player and a long reliever. Pods is the engine that makes this team go, and I don't see why we keep acting like he can't hit lefties.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 21, 2005 -> 12:37 AM) Just got back from the game... Two major gripes. First -- I forgot what inning it was, but Jermaine Dye and Aaron Rowand led off the inning and got on base. I believe that both walked -- I'm positive that Rowand walked, and I'm 90% sure that Dye walked too. Anyways, next batter is Chris Widger, and on the first f***ing pitch, he's bunting. I hate that. He took all the pressure off of Robertson by giving them that out (they got Dye out at third). At least, make him show you that he can hit the strike zone before conceding the out. Smartball, Ozzie? No, that's what we call "Dumbass-ball"... Smallball isn't a good way to go at the Cell when the ball is flying out of the park. While we were busy trying to create one run at a time, the Tigers were busy hitting the ball all over the park. We've been flat at the beginning of almost all our home games over the last 2 weeks, and a big reason seems to be that we're just trying to create one run, instead of actually trying to give our pitchers some breathing room. Sure, it's great how Iguchi keeps getting Pods over. However, with the type of hitter Frank is now, it's in no way a guaranteed run if we have a guy on 3rd, and less than 2 outs with Frank up. I'd rather we stop taking the bat out of Iguchi's hands, and just let him go up to the plate and hit away. Don't get me started on Garcia pitching the 9th inning either. That's just idiotic in so many ways.

Reading tomorrow's tribune article, it looks like Jenks might be the closer sooner, rather than later.

Funny thing is a bigger priority to me is the Sox offense, yet we rarely talk about that. We're still not putting up very good efforts against tough pitchers, especially righties. For as much as Iguchi's been praised for getting runners over, his average is just about .270 now. Sure, it's good to get the runner over to 3rd with less than 2 outs, but it's not a crime to get a hit in the process also. I feel like we've been playing for one run too often early in the game, and it's led to our hitters only having one chance to get the runner in with less than 2 outs. However, I couldn't be happier with where we stand right now, so that's not b****ing, just constructive criticism.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:37 AM) Atleast you have the ability to reason unlike some people who are just stubborn as hell. I might be Mr. Negative, but I know my baseball, and McCarthy isn't a cant-miss prospect like he was being billed by some. Thus, since he's not a guaranteed superstar, if you can parlay him into a difference maker for the franchise, you take your chances.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:36 AM) I'm not going to lie and say it's an easy thing to do but you have to, that's the only way young players are going to learn and get better. Hell, look at Jenks, I love what they're doing with him, he might take a few lumps this year but this learning experience will give him a shot to be a key cog to next years club and he's got a shot to be an absolutely dominate reliever, he's special and you can't give up on him if he gets wild this year or gets hit a bit this year, cause those things probably will happen, doesn't mean he won't be a great reliever some day cause he's got a great shot to be one. One of my favorite things to occur this season was that we kept Jenks on the roster, and let Shingo go. It would have been so easy for KW to just send down Jenks, and keep the obviously washed-up Shingo. That move took a lot of balls by KW and Ozzie, and I'm thrilled with the decision.

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:35 AM) and i was also saying the you cant compare a 21 year old to a 35 year old Says who. I know a lot of 35 year olds that had the maturity of a nickle.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:35 AM) Which is why I was saying the great ST was probably the last thing he needed. They were bound to catch up with him eventually. Exactly. DBAHO, I think you and I are on the same page with all of this. Again, in no way am I saying his career is over before it really ever started.

A big problem in this debate is that too many people think the Sox have clinched the AL Central this season. Schmidt would be a big part in helping to assure we would hold on to our lead. I trust Schmidt to not hit the wall during the pennant stretch. I can't say the same for Contreras. If we could trade Contreras, Shingo, McCarthy, and another lower prospect for Schmidt and Hawkins, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:30 AM) Based on his last outing, he's not getting shelled in Charlotte any more. What we're trying to say is that he should have been sent down in AA in the 1st place, but now that he's in AAA they'll stick with him there. After the ST he had, there was no chance he was going back to AA. The funny thing is, and I swear on my life this is true, when I saw McCarthy in ST, he looked the same as he did in the majors. I didn't understand why people weren't hitting him, and his stuff was rather underwhelming. I remember asking my brother how he was getting people out with what he was throwing up to the plate.

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:30 AM) Contreas= 35 Bmac= 21 Thats a big differnce Contreras has the mental mindset of a teenager on the mound. Nothing against the man, as he's gone through more than all of us combined in his life, but I don't trust him for a second in a crucial situation.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:28 AM) Well the Counts next start is against his favorite team, the BoSox. This will give us a good barometer of how far he has truly come. Can we pray for rain now?

QUOTE(ScottPodRulez22 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:27 AM) Its hard to learn when you have no confidence If you get beat up in AAA, then you have more problems than your confidence. We shouldn't be babying McCarthy in the minors. If we were to send him down to AA, that might shatter his confidence more than any shelling he'd receive in AAA.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:25 AM) And because of McCarthy's frame he's probably going to fill out and add that little bit of extra velocity that he is going to need. It's not like Cotts throws real dominating stuff anyway. Cotts big advantage is being a lefty with a deceptive delivery.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:24 AM) BMac should be in AA. I severely disagree. McCarthy should be in AAA. It will teach him to keep the ball in the park. In AAA, instead of facing a bunch of prospects who will swing at everything, he'll get more used to facing ex MLB players who might have better strike zone judgment. Remember the game against KC where McCarthy couldn't strike out a single batter? That's something that he needs to improve on.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:22 AM) And that was because of a simple adjustment he had to make. See how it can change so easily? That's why I'm saying it's unfair to give up on a guy who hasn't performed in the majors straight away when he shouldn't have even been up there in the 1st place. Once again, I'm not giving up on him. However, there's a difference between the adjustment Cotts made, and what McCarthy needs to improve on. One is more mental, while the other is McCarthy's stuff.

You guys all make solid points, but that doesn't mean that people didn't overrate McCarthy in ST and before he was called up. Just cause someone's overrated, it doesn't mean they can't succeed in the future.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:19 AM) He's still only 190 pounds, he's going to bulk up in the next few years and probably add a few more MPH like you said he needs. It's like Neal Cotts. In SoxFan's books, he wouldn't have done anything 2 months ago. Now he's probably our most dominating lefty out of the pen. And that's because the Sox had PATIENCE with him at the major league level, even though the majority of Sox fans were calling for him to have his ass demoted to Charlotte ASAP. It takes TIME. The main reason Cotts is better now is his control. Remember how awful his control was in the past? I mean, he wasn't even close to the plate.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:16 AM) Overrated are players that make more than they should, and players that get pumped up in the media when they don't deserve to. A lot of White Sox fans would tell you that Paul Konerko is overrated. Half of your response is what I was trying to say about McCarthy. The media made him out to be the second coming this season. Comparisons to Mark Prior and Jack McDowell were made.......instead, he looked like Felix Diaz's long-lost brother. Again, please don't lump me in with those who are giving up on him. I just have no issue trading him for an impact player for the franchise. This whole overrated concept is funny, cause I actually think Iguchi and AJP are drastically overrated right now, while the contributions of Dye and Everett were incredibly underrated in the first half of the season.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:15 AM) Take away his MLB starts. To say he only has 3 wins is not a good argument when you see how bad Charlotte has been this season. He has a 86/20 K/BB ratio. All he has to do is cut down on the long balls. If he starts the year in AA, he would have an ERA of around 2, and people wouldn't call him overrated, in fact people would be putting him on a pedestal. It's not fair for you to base on what he's done when it counts, when he's only 21, and only has 1/2 a season of experience above AA ball. It's like take Gio Gonzalez out of Winston - Salem right now, promoting him to Chicago, he gives up 6 ER in a start, gets demoted, and people are saying he's overrated. The biggest concern I have about McCarthy is that he's going to either have to pick up another 2 mph on his fastball, or he's going to have to change the type of fastball he throws. Right now, he's throwing a pretty average fastball straighter than Hugh Heffner. Hopefully, he'll gain some velocity as his body fills out. However, he's going to have to get some movement on his fastball. It's not like his future MLB home stadium is a pitcher's park.

If McCarthy hasn't been overrated this season, then I don't want to know who is considered overrated.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:05 AM) Yes, go look at his numbers from 2003 and 2004 in the minors and tell me he's underrated. When you pitch that well and dominate like he did you deserve to be touted as a major prospect. Minor league numbers mean jacks***. The worst thing someone can do is get caught up in analyzing someone's minor league stats.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:06 AM) He never should have pitched in the majors this year. He pitched lights out in spring training and was rushed along. They put his development on hold and tried to fill a spot in the rotation with a AA pitcher. He wasn't ready. He is NOT overrated. I remember hearing Hawk and Ozzie saying how we had a great 6th starter in McCarthy if someone got hurt. Then, we called him up, and he was clearly not ready. That's a textbook example of being overrated.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 20, 2005 -> 04:06 AM) Because he never should have been up with the Sox in the 1st place. Realistically they should have started him in AA this year, and then moved him up to Charlotte after this year's draft. If they did that, and McCarthy was putting up numbers like he did last season, don't you think Sox fans would be getting restless if he wasn't in our rotation when El Duque got injured? I'm not going to disagree that he shouldn't be up. But come on, you know as well as I do that many on here thought McCarthy was going to come up and have a 3.50 ERA while striking out 7 a game. 99pct of Sox fans had too high of expectations for McCarthy. In my book, that's called being overrated.