thedoctor

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 11:55 PM) Wow, so many things to say about that game. For anyone who thinks Weber can't coach, re-watch this game. His plan was perfect. If only the two biggest morons on the team (Randle and Pruitt) showed some patience and senior/veteran decision making in the last 5 minutes, this would have been a win. How worthless is Sampson? Did he even try to get Gordon the ball on set plays? A ball screen? That's all you've got? And you have one of the worst shooting teams in the nation, and you play zone like three times? Anyone could see that the success Illinois had against the zone (i think two baskets) were lucky ones - how often is meachum going to drive right under the hoop? He's terrible. He made zero adjustments. He relied on Ratliff draining ridiculous three point shots to win this game. IU fans are real classy with the shut up Weber chant - shocker there. In the end I'm happy. I expected Illinois to get blown out. Honestly it reminds me of the Indiana game in 04, when Deron, Dee and Luther finally saw what the motion offense could do. I think the last two games, two of the toughest on the schedule, will go a long way in helping this team grow. well said. i agree with a lot of that.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 11:47 PM) It's probably going to be the nastiest situation in a long time. What do you get when you mix drunken college students, a student section that sits on the floor 3 feet from the players, and the loss of the top recruit in the nation? Mayhem. They better bring in extra security. there won't be security issues. but people will definitely say some unnecessary things, as we saw tonight.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 11:44 PM) Its students being students. Just wait until Indiana goes to Illinois. You might want to recant your statements of the IU student base. It's going to be ugly in Champaigne. agreed. it will not be good in champaign. people will make azzes of themselves as people usually do.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 11:42 PM) I was just saying that one reason for the foul differential (which was a topic here) was the disparity in athletcism between the teams. That's all. You are right -- I'm probably not a good particularly analyst. If I'm not adding anything worth talking about, I'll stop. My apologies. i'm not asking you to stop doing anything. i'm not a mod nor do i want to be. we all understand you've been critical of the way illinois has recruited over the past few years. even most illinois fans (me in the group) has agreed. but why continue to harp on the obvious when that's not what's happening on the floor. in the business we call that burying the lead.

nice effort from illinois today but effort isn't good enough. at some point you have to win some of these games.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 11:32 PM) I didn't think I was regugitating anything. really? illinois has lost four straight including to tennessee state at home. indiana has won 26 straight at home. we've been talking for two years and agreeing that bruce weber hasn't recruited top talent. with all that in mind, your first two best observations of this game are that illinois isn't physically talented? ok. maybe you just aren't good at providing good objective analysis at basketball. that's ok. few are.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 11:13 PM) But Illinois is just physically outclassed and they are starting to look tired (Brock especially). way to state the obvious. we've only been talking about this from the preseason up until now. remember, illinois did lose at home to tennessee state. i don't think anyone was making the argument they were talented. my question would be why a team that is so outclassed isn't getting tihskicked by a team that's won 26 straight at home. to me, that would be a more salient observation and one that actually took some thought, not just regurgitating something you read on a message board.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 10:23 PM) In a game no ones watching, Illinois leading Indiana by 4 at IU at the Half. Doubt they win, but still, Illinois has been playing some what tough the last game and a half. i rarely give billy packer credit but he pointed out something i noticed a bit against wisky. for the first time there was good ball movement, sharp cuts, and things that showed an understanding of motion. it was encouraging to see and hopefully something they can build on.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 04:07 AM) Before you go ga-ga over Tubby and Minnesota consider the fact that their wins are: Army, Iowa St., Central Michigan, UC Riverside, North Dakota St, Colorado St., Santa Clara, Nicholls St., Kennesaw St., Northwestern, and Penn State. Pathetic. They haven't beaten one worthwhile opponent. Indiana by 20+...White is playing like an absolute animal lately. Ellis does everything. Gordon is Gordon. And the bench is very strong assuming Bassett is healthy enough to play. with all due respect, i don't see anyone going "ga-ga." i see minnesota fans excited about their season after a few down years and i see some opposing fans (like rex) expressing respect for what they've accomplished and showing knowledge of how the big ten works. sometimes, in this league in particular, winning on the road is difficult whether or not you have superior talent (see the msu-iowa game last night). besides, although i think indiana is better than minnesota, who exactly have the hoosiers beat that would clearly identify them as this juggernaut? to me, the best team they played was xavier, and we know how that game panned out. and this is no disrespect to indiana or it's fans. we have many great indiana posters here who understand college basketball. unfortunately (just like with illinois a few years ago) we also have many fans with absolutely no perspective or ability to view their team in an objective light. that gets really tiresome, particularly when people try to use this narrow view to pound other teams for no good reason. just my $.02.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 04:14 AM) Predictions on tomorrow's IU/UI game? IU 78 UI 55 i don't think it will be quite that bad but i don't see illinois keeping it within single digits. i'm looking forward to watching gordon, though. despite all that happened, he's a rare talent and you have to appreciate those when they come along.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jan 1, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) If Jim Belushi keeps jumping on and off bandwagons like he is, he is gonna pull a hamstring. he isn't even wearing orange. douche.

as much as i know illinois is tihs, this surprises even me. sad state of affairs right now.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 29, 2007 -> 07:32 AM) Brandon Paul (Illini commit 09) had 36 points and 9 rebounds in a double OT win over Iman Shumpter and Oak Park tonight. Paul is blowing up, Iman-style. They seem like almost identical players. sounds like paul is going to be a good one.

illinois could sure as hell use legion. he'd probably be available around this time next year, too, which is nice.

good stuff. solid move for kw.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 10:56 PM) yeah -- I don't think this thread is that bad at all, at least when graded on a curve. lol. true enough, true enough.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) wow, this thread turned ugly quick. this is nothing. you should see the illinois boards. better yet, don't.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) Wedge is not an idiot... unlike Guillen. really? i actually always thought they were pretty similar in terms of their managing skills. wedge's greatest strength isn't his baseball knowledge and ability to strategize. his handling of pitching and in-game strategic decision-making is awful, pretty much similar to oz. wedge's strength, and ozzie's at least purportedly, is his ability to build a cohesive clubhouse and foster a great team atmosphere. i'd agree with pratt that wedge's edge on ozzie is in the talent at his disposal, not his ability to run a team.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 08:54 PM) I'm not expecting finals fours every year at all, but for Illinois to be this bereft of talent and be in position to miss multiple NCAA tournaments in a row is inexcuseable, and to say this program hasn't had a HUGE falloff under Weber is inaccurate. He's destroyed years and years of momentum, and did it very fast. you know, i hear what you're saying and i understand to a certain degree. but from a historical perspective, what is happening to the program now is not all that odd. but really, weber was going to have a huge fall-off one way or another. there's not too far up to go from 37-2. i think we all hoped that in the aftermath of that we'd just clean up on recruits. instead, we followed the historical pattern illinois teams have followed. we missed out on a lot of great chicago-area kids, and didn't have outstanding downstate talent to offset those losses. that led to what we are seeing today. many, many programs have gone through what we are going through right now for varying reasons. look at uconn, or maryland, or even kentucky. these are programs that within the past decade or so have won titles and subsequently had struggles for whatever reason. even duke and carolina have had downturns. it happens. the knee-jerk reaction to this stuff is, "fire the coach." but again, i fail to see what long-term benefit the program gains by cutting ties with weber if he misses the tournament this year. now if you miss this year and next and we see some of these committed kids decide to go elsewhere, well at that point i think you take a serious look at everything. i just don't feel as if we're even close to that point.

QUOTE(He_Gawn @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 07:47 PM) Laughable? He left his own teammate to die.... jamar was out of his head drunk on tequila and concussed. if you want to believe he clearheadedly and intentional left his teammate in a bad situation to cover his own ssa, then go right ahead. to me, brian carlwell's actions toward jamar in the days after the accident speak volumes. the team's actions toward jamar also speak volumes. if smith "left his teammate to die" then why were all of his teammates including carlwell resoundingly supportive of jamar in both the immediate and long-term aftermath? the kid made a mistake, clearly. there's no excuse for what he did. but to claim he got off easy or without reproach is, yes, laughable. and please note that i said the claim that jamar was not punished is laughable. of course the situation itself isn't laughable. if you are going to try to rebut what i say you could at least try to be accurate in assessing my point.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 06:32 PM) I'm actuallly amazed that someone as obviously athletic as Frazier isn't a better basketball player. The sad thing about this team is that -- I think -- if they just had one player that could shoot they could have played a 2 man game with that guy and Pruitt and been a tournament team. agreed. a guy like jamar is exactly what they need here, but rightfully he is not a part of this year's group. i know the conventional wisdom here has been that jamar got off easy, which i think is laughable. when all is said and done he'll have served a year-and-a-half suspension in addition to jail time. plenty of players who've gotten dui's have gotten off with much, much less. certainly there are other elements of case that warranted a more severe penalty, but i don't get the claim that his penalty is not severe. in terms of frazier, he just is what he is. he reminds me of randle in the sense that he does good things and you expect more, but you never really get it.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 05:50 PM) I think the ability is there, it may take some time and I hope he develops the work ethic to live up to his potential. I do think it is time to throw him to the wolves and just let him learn on the court though. Frazier has actually regressed and he means little to the program at this point. frazier's regression has been damning to this team. you can't have a guy who's supposed to be a major contributor turn into a major liability. it's made weber have to play mccamey more often, which as we've seen has not always been a good thing. i think ideally mccamey would be playing rarely at this point, but you have to play him and let him learn on the fly. weber and others who teach motion have said it usually takes a new group until around christmas to "get it" if they are ever going to. mccamey doesn't get it yet, but i think he will. the shortcomings i've seen out of him are what you tend to expect from freshmen--carelessness with the ball, lapses in defense, inability to go hard all the time, etc.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 05:06 PM) Well, Gordon was the only recruit Weber has had on a par with Richmond and he did have trouble keeping him. It's not like the rest of Weber's recruits were 5 stars everyone wanted. But I wasn't appealing to past history, but rather what I think is an obvious future. I don't see why the 09-10 recruits would be less likely to come to Illinois Weber were replaced, I think it might actually make the program more appealing. As you say, only time will tell. If I can switch to a more interesting subject --are you surprised at McCamey's play so far? I didn't see him play before now, and I get the impression you did. I don't want this to sound like I'm ripping on him (he's a freshman), but he doesn't seem very quick. Do you think he can be a quality point guard in the Big Ten eventually? I was hoping that Illinois would have a guard that could penetrate finally, but it's possible that that's not all McCamey -- it seems like the UI motion offense doesn't lend itself to that. no, i'd never seen him play before here. i live in ohio so i rarely see high school players from illinois. occasionally i get back home and sneak in a game, but it's usually a cpl game and mccamey didn't play in the cpl. in terms of mccamey, i think he's having the same issues many freshmen have. in terms of his quickness, he was never advertised as exceptionally quick, but that part doesn't really concern me because i think it can be offset by his size. he'll have a hard time guarding smaller and quicker guards, but smaller and quicker guards will have a hard time guarding him. i don't think he's looked great so far, but very few freshman come in and light up the world. look at evan turner's numbers. he was higher rated than mccamey and he's putting up similar numbers and having similar struggles. it's a process and the fact that he hasn't torn up the world 10 games into his college career isn't making me ready to draw any conclusions.

QUOTE(Jimbo's Drinker @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 05:00 PM) Maybe the 09-10 recruits wont try to kill one of their teammates either. that's some weak tihs even for you. maybe some day you'll actually bring some relevance or insight to this thread.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 21, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) Do you honestly think Richmond, Bertrand, and Paul are going to want to play for what they saw last night when they could go to UNC, UCLA, USC, Memphis, Indiana...or anywhere where the basketball program isn't obviously dying? Whether or Weber should be fired, he will have a hard time keeping those recruits after this season and next. It won't be pretty. well, time will tell on that. my point is that there has been one case (one) in five years where weber had a problem keeping recruits. if you can cite others i'm missing, feel free. and yes, i am fairly certain that richmond, bertrand, and paul are going to end up playing for illini. just as i'm confident crandall head will, and fairly confident anthony johnson will. but again, time will tell. i will say that my confidence in those guys coming would diminish considerably if weber was fired. but that isn't going to happen, so it isn't really relevant to discuss.