nitetrain8601

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 12:08 PM) Nene is overated id rather us spend less money and get Nazr Mohammed. I agree. Nene is a wide body, but I too think he is vastly overrated. He would cost lots more cash than he is worth.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 06:33 PM) I have ZERO problem with bandwagon fans and new fans. My issue is with the people that will jump off as soon as we lose 4 in a row. If last year made you a fan, great....but STAY a fan from now on. There is a difference between new fans and front runners. Correct.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) Young was the better scrambling QB, and won the game with his legs. I think Leinart was the better pocket passer however. He faced constant pressure in the pocket, and his receivers were often well covered, yet he still had a good game. Young on the other hand had plenty of time in the pocket, and had receivers open by a large amount on a constant basis. Yes, Young won the game, but I think that Leinart did a much better job given what he had to work with. Yeah, Leinart did a better job with superior WR's and RB's in the pocket. Young hit the passes he needed to hit. He did not have guys wide open all day, or by a large amount or on a consistant basis. I'm not sure if you were even watching that game. Young went through his checkdowns first unless USC dropped everyone back in which case, the Longhorns ran the ball, either with Young or their RB's. I'm going to agree with Soxbadger's and WHarris assessments. I'm not African-American or Caucasion, so it's not like I'm bias to either one. I don't really want to discuss it either and have a race thread.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 06:19 PM) Didn't have that problem in college. The pros are a completely different ballgame, and defenses are much more complex. And Soxbadger, playing the race card is just wrong. It has nothing to do with his race. So you're saying a guy with a worse off rating is going to translate better in the NFL? And why would this make sense? It's not like Young throws a submarine style ball.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 06:25 PM) 4 star DB Chris Duvalt from Florida and 4 star OL Ramone Johnson of Morgan Park both have Illinois in their top 2 as well, and 3 star DB Vontae Davis of Maryland is still a possibility. Hopefully we can land at least 1 of those guys.....I think Ray Ray is going to end up in Knoxville, but hopefully I'm wrong and/or we can land Duvalt or Davis as another DB, Lord knows we need them. Are these guys coming in for the upcoming season or the season after?

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 06:12 PM) Listing Jake Plummer as a defense for any QB is just sad. Jake is a horrible QB, and this year is his first good year in the pros. Jake is a mediocre QB and it's not because of his throwing motion. It's because of his decision making on the field. Young doesn't have that problem.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 06:01 PM) Young is a good college QB. I don't see his weak passes translating into the pros however, and I don't think he will be nearly as good a scrambler in the pros as he is in college. He has poor throwing mechanics, and hasn't shown consistant accuracy through his entire collegian career. And yea, its Leinart, Young, then Cutler. He has the same throwing mechanics as Jake Plummer/Steve McNair. His mechanics are fine and he's been working with McNair on it for the past year and a half on it(which is why they're alike). People just like hating on Vince Young for whatever reason. I'm not saying he will be the best QB in the league and a surefire HOF, but he'll be a damn good QB in 3-5 years.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 05:43 PM) Ive been watching Grossman since he was playing under Spurrier. I think Young could be a better QB than Grossman day 1. I know you think Young will bust, there just does not seem to be any reason to that statement. Here are the projected top 3 QB's stats from last year: CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT 283 431 3815 65.7 8.85 67 28 8 17 157.74 212 325 3036 65.2 9.34 75 26 10 13 163.95 273 462 3073 59.1 6.65 47 21 9 23 126.07 Can you decide which one is Young, Leinart, or Cutler just off the numbers? I think you would be suprised. Leinart Young Cutler

QUOTE(fathom @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 05:24 PM) I hate Vick. I don't even think Grossman is anything special. Vick is the most overrated player in all of sports. And again, I think my record on soxtalk shows that I'm anything but a homer. You hate Vick, that's nice. But you also want to win games. Vick wins games alone. I know he isn't the greatest passer ever, but he could still throw the ball down to Crumpler and he's faster than 90% of the defense in the league. Vick > Schuab >>Grossman

QUOTE(fathom @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 05:02 PM) Considering I'm probably the last person to ever be called a homer, I'm going to call you out on this. All you have to do is use your own f***ing eyes, and you can see that Grossman can be a pretty damn good QB in this league. If both players are healthy and I had to win one game, I would take Grossman over Michael Vick in a heartbeat. Grossman might not make the highlight play, but he's not going to beat his own team like Vick might do. Grossman over Vick? Wow. I know what DukeNukeEm is talking about now.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 05:00 PM) Frank's gonna hit 52 homers this year in Oakland when we can't even remember the last time he was healthy? I said I hope he does. I realize he hasn't been completely healthy since around 2002 when he belted 40 something. It's possible, especially if he goes on the tear he did last year because his shots were not only HR's, but deeeeep HR's.

I don't mind him saying anything. He's been a part of this team his whole career. I hope he gets his 500th this year. If the White Sox don't win it, I hope Oakland does with a healthy Frank.

Everyone starts off a bandwagon jumper. Whether it's because your parents were fans of that team or the fact that team was a winner when you decided to become a fan of theirs, it's still bandwagoning. I don't mind any fans at all. If a fan doesn't know something, then you just help educate them on it so they could help out other fans.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 04:43 PM) Young isn't anywhere near as fast as Vick and the faster linebackers in the NFL can still catch Vick. If Young tries to be Vick, he will be caught and he will get injured sooner or later. Actually, Vick runs a 4.3 IIRC and Young for a fact runs a 4.4. So much for not being anywhere as fast though, right? And Young has height and weight on Vick. But again, people act like Young is a run first QB, which he is not.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:44 PM) Bmac has control of 4 pitches that he can throw for strikes. Cotts has 2 pitches, and up until last year had a real hard time controlling them for strikes. Bmac has shown command and control of more than 2 pitches. He has a great changeup and is a bulldog out there. Neal up until last year had a hard time finding the strikezone. His stuff was always there, his control wasnt. In the bullpen he can get away with 2 good pitches and facing batters maybe once. In the bullpen he doesnt have a long time to overthink, Coop calls down to the pen, Cave gets Cotts up. In a few minutes he can be in the game. BMac has 4 pitches that he can throw for strikes? Curveball, Fastball(which gets hammered once he goes away from his changeup), and a mediocre changeup. What's the last pitch? I don't remember Cotts' repotoire, but I thought he has like 3 good pitches. I know one of them is a cutter.

QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 10:29 PM) Blount> the bust. Davis> the overpaid scrub of a small foward tht has spent his entire career with the timberwolves. Marcus banks is just an added bonus... not to mention the timberwolves got rid of two players they want no part of and a ridiculously expensive one in wally. Blount is horrible and any Boston fan will tell you that. Plus his contract is for 4 more years IIRC. Horrible, horrible contract. Davis is a nice player, but he's not the difference between wins and losses IMHO. Olowakandi is horrible, but this is his last year on his deal. Wally has been playing pretty decent this year, but has a big contract(11, 12, 13 million). Other 2 guys are scrubs. Boston also gets a 1st rounder from Minnesota. Minny gets 2 future 2nd rounders. Again, a lot of activity, but if you look at it deeper, no one really wins or losses. It's a lateral move for both teams.

Lots of players moving around, but in the end, doesn't mean much. Not much in terms of quality being upgraded.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) And barely anything is known about Anderson Gomes so how can anyone say that he's a good prospect yet? Right now, he's just a prospect. Fine, since you want to dismiss them, let's dismiss them. There's still enough guys to fill the spots and not suck.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:18 PM) Okay, what specifically makes Gomes and Sanchez good prospects instead of just prospects? I'm curious. Tools and skillset. Of course it's also projecting right now.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:17 PM) I never compared Milledge to Anderson or Sweeney. I was comparing Milledge to Sanchez and Gomes. Unlike Sanchez and Gomez, Milledge has put up good numbers at high A and AA. Sanchez was bad in a rookie league and Gomes has never even had an AB in the minors. That was my point. And I was talking about OF depth and how Milledge is not needed. Is he closer than Sanchez or Gomes? Yes. But he's not needed at all for this organization.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:14 PM) Why trade for a worse Mike Vick? Without the crappy defenses and good Texas o-line, Young is going to be in trouble. And it will be funny to watch. Yeah, because he wasn't tearing up Ohio State's defense earlier in the year and Michigan's in the previous year's Rose Bowl. Vince Young is a legit great prospect at QB.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:05 PM) Ready for what? Their third stint in AAA? What proof is there that either one will be ready in 5 years? Just curious. What proof is there that Milledge will do any better than Anderson or Sweeney? Fact is, he's not a need, he's not worth giving up an important piece to the puzzle for and the White Sox will survive without him.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 09:01 PM) How are Salvador Sanchez and Anderson Gomes good outfield prospects? One was bad in a rookie league and the other has never even had an AB in the minors. They'll be ready in 5 years. Right now, there is no need whatsoever for Milledge.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 08:50 PM) You said that the Sox have a bunch of OF talent in the minors. I assumed that you meant we had a bunch of good outfield prospects in the minors. If my assumption was wrong, I'm sorry, but if not, then what are you talking about? I said in our minors because people act like we didn't have any there and then I later went on to say our system. Fact is this, we have these guys: Podsednik Anderson Dye Borchard Owens Sweeney Gomes(not ready yet though) Sanchez(same) And that's just off the top of the head. Milledge is not needed. At most within the next 2 years, we need 2 OFs and I expect Anderson and Sweeney to be manning those spots.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 26, 2006 -> 08:29 PM) Name a top outfielder in our system that isn't named Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney. I guess there's Jerry Owens, but still. Our minor league outfield depth isn't that big anymore with the trade of Young. So you want me to name OF's without naming the top 2? Okay, take out Jose Contreras' bad starts and he's a great pitcher. Consider this, most of our team last year did not even come from our system. You don't think the White Sox would sign a FA OF?