jphat007

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 06:27 AM) Is one really any better than the other? Honestly? Erstad plays a really good CF if he is healthy. And while we know Gold Gloves aren't the greatest measure of defense, he has won two for outfield play. One in 2000 (for mostly LF and some CF) and one in 2002 for CF. I'm sure he's not as quick as he was in those days, but his instincts have to be pretty darn good.

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Mar 15, 2007 -> 02:48 AM) The point of this thread is an OF of Erstad/BA/Dye > Erstad/Pods/Dye Having a LF/CF combo of Erstad and Pods is screaming for defensive difficulty in that area, you know, where lots of right handed hitters pull the ball to. Pods can't throw for hamburgers, and we want him to anchor our CF position? The guy that hasn't had a good read on a flyball since 2003? Pods makes a great reserve OFer. He can run(in theory), he can spell Erstad because we all know asking Erstad to play 150 games in the OF isn't gonna happen, and he can be a great late game asset. But fact is, Oz is in love with having his 'grinders' out there in LF and CF. Uh. Pods isn't going to be anywhere near CF. Erstad would be the CFer

I wonder if Nunez can be sent down to Charlotte. His stuff looked solid. Might be a decent back up right hand long relief option

QUOTE(Capn12 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 09:10 AM) Well lets see....Garland was a starting pitcher for us for 3.5 seasons before Guillen was named manager.. Sweeney has absolutely no shot at making this team Danks, well what choice does Ozzie have as the 5th starter? Its either a young, more talented Danks or a young but unproven, wild Floyd. Logan...well when someone pitches like he did in ST, and there aren't many other options that are plausible, thats what happens. Besides, I don't see anyone blaming it on Ozzie not playing BA because he is young. Ozzie isn't going to play BA because BA isn't one of Guillen's boys, thats pretty obvious. Name a better option for CF that this team has, right now, than Brian Anderson. Just like Freddy Garcia was Guillen's boy? That didn't stop him from getting shipped off, though many thought it would. I don't think it's obvious at all that Ozzie isn't going to play BA because he isn't his 'boy'.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 06:32 AM) I feel dumb for not really realizing it, but after seeing that quote last night, Anderson really does have very little chance of making the 25 man roster. Podsednik is obviously going to start if he is healthy. That is a given with Guillen. It has also be predetermined that Erstad automatically has a starting spot on this team, and it doesn't matter where it is. It just so happens there is a semi-opening in CF, and even if Erstad only has 27 games in CF since 2003, the spot is his. Its also clear by the quotes that Ozzie wants no part of Anderson on the bench, because "it's not fair to Brian" Once again, the day I turn on the game, and see an OF of Podsednik-Terrero-Dye, is the day I truly realize Williams f***ed up big time with the OF situation. Isn't Terrero a solid defender? Or is that incorrect?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 07:25 PM) I can't recall a single time you saying that once, let alone more than three times. That's what I was thinking. I do remember many a time saying how awful and washed up Freddy was.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:00 PM) It's poor decisions such as these which we desperately need to avoid in future deals. Let's remember, Williams traded Garcia and McCarthy to restock the farm system with talented arms in hopes of avoiding the escalating FA market. With an already suspect minor league system, which completely avoids all foreign development, we NEED to have better people working under the organization capable of identifying talent. Our success practically depends upon it. Want to take a chance on Floyd? Find another way of obtaining him. We shouldn't have to deal with projects such as him in deals involving starting pitchers, when our future depends so heavily on a return package. Of course, because it didn't influence your opinion of the trade. Reed/Olivo alone were proving themselves useless by year two of the deal. If Danks/Masset fail to reach expecatations, and McCarthy does well, it would just be your nature to hold off criticism until Rasner comes alone. Uh, no. I'd say the trade sucked. Just like the Ritchie trade or any other similar trade. I've said it over time. I'm not not saying the Floyd trade is a good one, but everybody is saying it is not a good trade when the dude hasn't even pitched for our team yet. It's ridiculous.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:47 PM) .02 in WHIP is very significant. Give it a rest already Hawk Jr. Four whole baserunners over the course of 1 year. Wow. You're right. Didn't realize it was so significant. Makes you look smarter to start name calling when you don't have an argument though.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) So, I take it you're not going to decide who won/lost the McCarthy deal until Rasner proves himself....in 2010. By then, the results should come out and you won't look foolish. LOL. Yah, that's exactly what I was saying. Just like we waited until Mike Morse sucked to know that the Freddy trade was a good one. Yah. Good analogy flash. QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) Keep Danks out of it. KW did not trade Garcia to get Danks. KW did not trade Garcia with the idea of trading for Danks. Yes I highly doubt Floyd can put up a 4.5 ERA, and Garcia hasn't had a 1.30+ WHIP since 2003. He had a 1.28 whip last year. He also had a 4.53 ERA. I was rounding, sue me,

QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:37 PM) Floyd/Danks vs. Garcia is just as extreme my friend LOL. Either Floyd or Danks putting up a 4.50 ERA with 1.30 whip is like Brian Anderson hitting 50+ homers? LOL. I'll go out on a limb and assume you weren't serious

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:30 PM) At the time, considering the status of those three, it WAS giving up too much. Sure, it obviously worked out for Seattle; but does that mean Williams should always include top prospects because it worked out once? Or that I should trust every move because no traded prospects have come back to haunt us? Well, Chris Young will probably change that belief. Chris Young could be a horrible trade. Freddy for Floyd/Gio could be a horrible trade. Bmac for Danks could be a horrible trade. All three of those scenarios could play out. But who cares what people THINK is too much to give up now. As in the case of the Freddy for Reed trade, all that matters is the results in the end. To this day KW has made some terrible trades, but most of the time he knows what he is doing, and he has shown plenty of times that judging his trades before the results come out is very, very foolish.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) Brian Anderson will have more homers than David Ortiz this year. Prove me wrong jphat. HOW DO YOU KNOW HE WONT? Maybe, maybe not. I don't. And I can't prove you wrong. I'm glad you got my point. Though that was an awfully strange extreme to use.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) Note to self. Stay out of game threads this season. Well, I'm doubt I'll be in them much, so instead of arguing, there will just be b****ing, moaning, whining and complaining.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:22 PM) Jphat, don't forget Freddy is in the NL this year. He dominated NL teams last year. I'd be shocked if he didn't atleast match last year's numbers (era will probably be lower). No way in hell Floyd or Danks will out-pitch Freddy in 2007. Well, when I say outpitch I don't mean just looking at their ERA. That's not realistic. And even still. That doesn't doesn't mean we know for sure right now that Gio and Floyd won't be better than Freddy pitches this year. No one can say so definitively. We won't know until then. And so, there is no real reason to discuss this anymore until on down the road and further in the future.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:22 PM) so... you think Danks or Floyd will log 200+ innings? really? Don't know. Maybe. Maybe not.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:21 PM) Define dense Ah good. Now I see how you know Freddy will outperform them. Thanks for that.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:16 PM) Maybe becase Garcia is a veteran and we know what we'll probably get outta him whereas Danks is a rookie who wasn't that impressive in his short stint in AAA last season and Floyd was in the NL gettin rocked. I will personally eat a ton of crow if Danks or Floyd can out pitch Freddy this entire season and i'm not just talking about one day where Freddy might have been bad whereas one of them might have been good. The ENTIRE season. And just to add Freddy is pitching in the NL and Danks or Floyd is pitching in the tough AL? I'll get my check book ready. That's all I'm saying. It is agains the laws of this universe for you to know that Freddy will outperform them. Until then no one can say for sure whether it was a bad trade or not. And really you can't say for a couple years. It's ironic. I can remember the outcries saying that Reed, Olivo and Morse was too much to give up for Freddy. But nobody truly knew. You look back now and you say, 'holy hell' that surely looks like a steal now.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:17 PM) because Garcia has been one of the most consistent pitchers of the last 5 years and... well... i just dont think either Danks or Floyd will match that. Either of them logging 200+ innings = impossible That doesn't tell me how you KNOW that Freddy will outperform them. You told me why you THINK Freddy will outperform them.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:08 PM) Who thought that was a stupid trade? We traded a guy out of options for another guy without any options. It was a low risk trade. Are you honestly trying to compare Garcia to Borchard? We didn't need another OF coming into 2006. We need another SP going into 2007, and Floyd isn't the person. My point is that KW has shown that he can get value for where there is little value. What if Freddy bombs this year and Gio and Floyd go on to solid or better careers. You can't say it's a bad trade right now. You can say you think it WILL be a bad trade, but that doesn't make it so.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:10 PM) LOL. I'm glad at least two other people are thinking on the same page as me. The Sox had no use for Borchard. The Sox could use Garcia right now. How do you know that either Danks or Floyd won't outperform Garcia this year. You are speaking in a lot of absolutes considering nobody has thrown a pitch this season.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) When Ken Rosenthal is quoting MLB Executives, I'm going to take his word for it. Rosenthal was on top of everything this offseason. I believe Jayson Stark quoted executives for not beliving the Sox couldn't get more. The day he traded Freddy, Schmidt, Lilly, and Meche all signed deals. We traded a our second best starter (behind Contreras) last year, who was coming off a phenomenal September after using a new pitch (similar to Loaiza in 2002) for a small, former Sox farm hand and a guy who flopped in both AAA and the NL last year with one option left. 2007 Garcia + two compensation picks > Gonzalez and Floyd. Stupid trade. Many people thought Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton was a stupid trade. COnsidering none of the pitchers involved have thrown a pitch for their new teams, you might be jumping the gun.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:01 PM) As I said, its time to pick up the pace. With the exception of Contreras the 4 others in the supposed White Sox rotation are getting hammered. If they go through another 2 weeks of this, it should be cause for concern. It certainly has gotten Don Cooper worked up a bit. Did you see some of hte 05 numbers that were posted the other day? ST numbers or performance have absolutely ZERO correlation with the regular season. Just ask Boone Logan, Brian Anderson, Tadahito Iguchi, Bobby Jenks, Jermaine Dye, among many many others, whether good or bad.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:59 PM) Rosenthal is citing PHILADELPHIA sources. I don't understand your inability to digest this information. It's almost as if you can't stand the thought. Hell, even with the evidence staring you in the face you can't admit that Williams clearly didn't receive all that he could have for Garcia. It's this simple..... How can you interpret it any differently than Williams not asking for the best possible package? What if KW called up earlier in the offseason and talked only to Gillick and asked for the moon, was quickly rejected and went on his way. You provide no proof. You can keep throwing the same line in my face, but until it offers some proof, I don't know what you hope to prove.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:55 PM) Philadelphia seems to admit they would have been willing to give up more for him. I think that's proof enough. . J Contreras CWS 0 2 5.06 3 3 0 0 0 0 10.2 13 6 6 0 1 6 11 2. M Buehrle CWS 0 1 11.00 3 3 0 0 0 0 9.0 15 11 11 3 1 3 7 3. J Garland CWS 1 1 11.25 3 2 0 0 0 0 8.0 18 11 10 3 0 2 4 4. J Vazquez CWS 0 2 15.19 2 2 0 0 0 0 5.1 12 9 9 0 0 2 3 These 4 plus Gavin Floyd makes for a lot of WS DVD viewing in 2007. Its time to pick up the pace. LOL. You are quoting Spring Training numbers. QUOTE(SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:57 PM) If you don't think that Rosenthal has any knowledge of officials/excutives within organizations of particular trades or signings, then you are more confusing than I would have dreamed. I'm sure he has plenty of sources. I'm sure he's been right plenty of times. But that doesn't change what I said. It's not proof at all.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:54 PM) Philadelphia seems to admit they would have been willing to give up more for him. I think that's proof enough. That's nowhere near proof. You don't know that they would have done the trade. Maybe the Phils thought Freddy's value was higher than it really was. That is all speculation. Speculation /= proof.