jphat007

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 08:39 AM) Guillen doesn't lie? And you know this how? Who is he... Mother Teresa? I remember Ozzie saying during the offseason before Marte was traded that the Sox were going to count on him as our second lefty out of the bullpen. Do you really think that Ozzie didn't know that Marte was going to be traded? He probably lied about it to up Marte's trade value a bit. LOL. Those are two completely different situations. Ozzie is about as up front as you get in sports. I'm not saying you have to believe any of this. I was just throwing out the three sources that said he was hitting 94 consistently. Many others have said it too. But don't believe them. I don't care. It doesn't mean I won't post them to give people the option to read them.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 08:28 AM) I love this place.. Good point..... And were you there early in the spring or middle of the spring? That would tell a lot about where his velocity was at the time. And you didn't really answer any of my questions for that matter.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 08:25 AM) Do you really need an answer to that? Just look at the team up north. They have been lying about their injuries for years. Wood, Prior, etc. They are always supposed to be healthy to start the season and then end up missing a month or so to start the season. TV guns are absolute s***. What does that have to do with the White Sox? Guillen doesn't lie and he's said that he isn't worried about his velocity, and just wants him to throw more strikes. This isn't football where you don't want the opponents to knwo about injuries. YOu don't gameplan baseball.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 08:18 AM) Both Dick Allen and Art Kusnyer are to be believed. Jenks could have been hitting 94 MPH in his other outings but he may not have been hitting 94 MPH at the game Dick Allen went to. Dick Allen is just telling us what he saw Jenks throwing at the game he went to. I don't see the need to call him out. My point is we have three different sources saying it was around 94 when we saw it on TV and Dick Allen saying it wasn't. Just wanted to let everybody see all the sources so they wouldn't take Allen's post as the absolute truth.

QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 08:20 AM) He didn't break 92 the 2 games I saw him pitch in. Your stupid if you believe everything that comes from the company men. These are the same folks that said that Hermy was fine... :rolly What reason do they have to lie? People will know come opening day. And it could have been 92 when you were there. Was it early in the spring? And a scout from another team isn't spouting the company line.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 08:07 AM) Jenks may have added more muscle, but he also added more fat. Also if he was lifting weights not using a program the White Sox would give to him, that would be stupid. I don't care what the televison speed gun shows, I was at Wednesday's game and I saw the guns in TEP. He basically was throwing 91, he did hit 93 once, he also was at 89 a couple of times. It shouldn't surprise anyone that Bobby was irresponsible this offseason. Its one reason I advocated the Sox going after a closer this past November and making Jenks a set-up. Bobby's gut is HUGE. Chicagosports SunTimes Who to believe? THis is a tough one......

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 09:15 PM) But Jphat told me that Jenks wasn't fat....he just came in with more muscle, and that no one should be worried about him? I said that Allen Thomas said that he put on muscle in the offseason. That's what Ozzie said early on too. When Ozzie says he is out of shape that means that he didn't lose as much weight as Ozzie wanted him to. He did the wrong type of training. That's what Allen Thomas said as well. We shouldn't be worried about him. He hasn't pitched a meaningful inning yet this year. I don't think Ozzie is worried about him. I think Ozzie is trying to make sure he doesn't get too big headed. That's what all of this is about. But I don't know why I'm telling you that. You are going to worry about everything no matter what. And the first time Jenks has a bad outing you'll be right there to point it out. You can worry as much as you want to. Piss your pants after every ST game for the next week and a half. Doesn't matter to me. BTW Good call on that.

man f*** this ump. its spring training.

I think Lopez has had a pretty solid spring.

Nice couple of innings for bmac

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 03:29 PM) So, Crede and Contreras for Blalock...any takers? UGH. LOL

Almost a wind aided HR for Alex.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 02:39 PM) The real question is -- when will Nomo be dropped? Hey, you said you wanted a righty in the pen. This is the type of guy it would be!

QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 12:15 PM) I don't think that will happen. I don't think there is a chance. Everybody would want a free chance to try and 'fix' him.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 12:04 PM) Agreed, Bottalico is most likely done. But there will be relievers cut soon who are better than Thornton. If Thornton still had options, he would probably be replaced by someone more reliable and headed for Charlotte to work on his control problems. But since he's out of options, he will likely be on our opening day roster. That's my problem with the situation. Exactly. KW thinks Coop can turn him into a decent reliever for our team. I'm sure everyone here is at least a little skeptical of that, but KW and Coop should have earned everybody's benefit of the doubt by now.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) Thorton sucks, he better not be in our pen. I'd rather see young pitchers like Logan develope then see Thorton blow games in mop up situations. Lets face it, without a bullpen we are NOT repeating. With the injury to Hermy and the rapid loss of velocity to Jenks, we are in trouble. Your right, Vizcaino would look great in our pen right now. I know for a fact KW is out there right now trying to find somebody. THe problem is, no team will be willing to trade any of there premier relievers in spring training. KW's only solution for now is to work within the organization for pitchers and right now the only one is consistently cutting the mustard is Logan and on occasion Lopez. And as far as Iguchi goes, I hope he goes back to the 2 hole, its where he belongs and he makes us stronger there. If it was between Logan and Thornton I would love for KW to go with Logan. I don't think it's between both though. I think they are both coming in the place of Hermy unless he has no pain all of a sudden. Coop and KW think they can straighten Thornton out. I don't necessarily like it but I think it's safe to say that they have earned the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:40 AM) You misunderstood my dislike for you and Kenny. Well, it's not about liking the person, it's about the philosophy, and what I've said is I'm fine with the moves KW made in teh offseason. Strengthen the offense, bench and rotation, while sacrificing the back end of the bullpen. That's what I would ahve done as well. And I also wouldn't give up tons and tons for a reliver at this point before we even start the season, which appears to be KW's thinking. So I'm fine with what he's done and would do the same. You said that would make me the worst GM ever so since it is the same that tells me you would think the same of Kenny. Don't confuse staying with what we have as being satisfied with what we have. KW is never satisfied.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:30 AM) I thought you liked KW. What happened?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:27 AM) I suggest you read the timeline of Thornton's outings at that link. He actually blew games in mop-up situations. Once again, there will be relievers cut during roster trimming in a week or so that are better than Thornton. I hope that KW doesn't just stick with Thornton because he's out of options. He's planning on it. You should too.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:23 AM) You would be the WORST GM EVER. Im 100% positive Kenny and Co. dont have your same philosophy. Williams has to be kicking himself that he didnt push harder for Myers when we had the chance, and also that Vizciano was part of the deal for Vazquez. Its scary how good Vizciano looks in this pen right now. No one is happy with the bullpen right now, and im sure Kenny and Ozzie are on the top of the list. Unless this spring has been a TOTAL fluke, and everything is fine come April 2nd(I dont believe it will be), there will be a few new faces by July, at the latest. First. Spring stats mean nothing. Second, how would I be the worst GM ever? I'm advocating doing exactly what KW did and is doing? Prices are rediculous for relievers, so he chose to upgrade in other areas. I'm sorry you think KW is the worst GM ever. He didn't have the extra money to give our 5th or 6th guy out of the bullpen. You are way overrating what the backend of a bullpen means to a team. I'm sure there will be a name or two different in the bullpen in July too, but I said RIGHT NOW. Sorry you didnt see that. Also sorry that you don't like KW as a GM.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:21 AM) Yes, there is. If a better reliever becomes available, pick the guy up and take Thornton or Ozuna off the roster if you have to. There will more than likely be a few relievers cut who are better than Thornton. Just ask Mariners' fans if Thornton won't have an effect on very many ballgames in mop-up situations... http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/3/20/204935/255 Well, if we have to start him some yes, but he is our 5th or 6th guy out of our bullpen. He'll mop up in the blowouts and occasionally get an important inning. A better reliever isn't going to become available for us. Have you seen the prices out there for relievers? Plus we are on the bottom of the waiver list.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:14 AM) Ummm....I'm actually happy that Ozzie is trying to fire up Jenks. He came in out of shape, and looks very uncomfortable on the mound. If he keeps up these poor mechanics, he's just begging for a serious injury with the way he throws. I've been saying all along that Jenks is not a known commodity, and it's not like we can just put him on the mound this season and be guaranteed 35 saves (like the Twins can do with Nathan). Funny you mention Game 3 of the WS though, as that was the only game in which I thought Ozzie didn't manage exceptionally well (how in the hell did he put Hermanson in for the 8th inning when he hadn't pitched in a decade?). It worked out well though, and I'd have to say that there's a lot more people worried about the bullpen than I am. I just don't want a case like the Cubs last year where you have a very strong, expensive starting pitching staff see it's performance ruined on a frequent basis because the bullpen can't get the last 7 outs of the game. Well it's what we got. We'll either live with it or we'll die with it. But like I say. The top 4 will be fine. Jenks will get his speed back at the end of spring like he has said all along and then he can stop nibbling. I don't necessarily like the mop up situation the way it is, but it won't have an effect on very many ballgames so I'm not particularly worried about the last 2 guys in our pen. No sense worrying about it at this point. It is what it is, and there's not much we can do to change it. PS. Jenks wasnt out of shape. Allen Thomas said he put too much muscle on in the offseason. I'm not sure if that affects his pitching all that much. Who knows

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 11:00 AM) Is their manager stating that Nathan and Wickman might have to be removed from the closer role? Does one of their main relievers have a back injury that has robbed him of all of his stuff on the mound? Jphat.....the thing that should bother us Sox fans is that our manager, GM, and the biggest homer of them all, Hawk, seem very worried about the bullpen. We have too much talent and money invested in our starting pitching to have it fall apart in close games in the 8th and 9th innings. Hey, you can worry abotu it all you want. I wouldn't expect otherwise. Ozzie was saying that to fire up Jenk and get him going. Just like he has for every other position on our team at one time or another. He has a much different way of managing than Wedge or Gardenhire. YOu should know, you blasted him for it all through last year right up until the end of Game 3 in the WS.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 10:59 AM) As far as I know, neither the Indians nor the Twins are depending on a reliever with 5.1 innings at Single A as his highest level like Boone Logan and a horrible reliever who can't throw strikes like Matt Thornton. I didnt say anything about them. I was just linking their ST stats for people to see.

Take a look at these pitching stats. Just interesting to see. I wonder if Cleveland is really worried? Cleveland And Minny for another comparison. Minny