sircaffey

QUOTE(JFields27 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 11:18 PM) LAD: no way we get Kershaw, Broxton would be nice in the bullpen, Loney you have a Swisher like defensive ability(can play 1B and OF), LaRoche plays 3B and i dont really dig him that much anymore Arizona: Jackson gives us a 1B and puts Swisher back to center and puts us even farther away from a leadoff hitter unless we got Justin Upton(and thats like asking for Kershaw) SF: Pitching rich yay, but can not give up Konerko just to get pitching. Dont know their minors well enough to think about position players Yes you can if we're talking Cain or Lincecum. You'd be a fool not to give up Konerko for either one of them. I think a lot of players around the majors would suddenly become available if the Giants made it known they would deal either one of them. Players better than Konerko.

You either trade Konerko now or you lose a hell of a lot of trade value. He becomes a 10/5 player shortly, and will be able to pick his team after that. I would love to see Konerko traded so we are not handcuffed with a long-term contract, albeit not a bad one...yet.

I will do a complete 180 on KW if he pulls that off.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 12:35 PM) Why would the Sox take GM Jr.'s contract? He is owed more money than Konerko. You're right. Although if the only way to get Kendrick (with Santana) is to take Matthews, that's 2 positions added a very low cost so Matthews contract is diffused across those positions. I think the Sox would be willing to do that as by all indications, a trade of Konerko is not to free up salary.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 09:32 AM) If Konerko is involved in a deal, the primary objective will be starting pitching. The idea of targeting kendrick is off base. It will be for pitching and whatever else the the other team will include. If the above rumors are true, I hope KW has another plan to spin Mathews elsewhewre. He really doesn't have a place on this team besides the fact he isn't very good. You know KW is working plans to trade both Crede and Uribe. So there are still a couple of trades to come. Why? KW targeted Swisher. Swisher is not a long-term solution to CF. It's clear KW wants to get younger in the core, and Kendrick fits the bill. You'd be an idiot not to make one of your first comments geared towards Kendrick. Especially since we have a need for a leadoff hitter.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 07:10 AM) IMO, the angels would not put Kendrick in any trade. If they dealt for PK, they'd have to trade Kotchman, another young hitter. Or less likely, they'd have to eat most of GMJ's contract, and move PK to DH. The angels would leave a big hole at 2b and have a huge logjam at 1b/ DH. Technically they don't have to trade Kotchman. If Pauly was on the team, I find it hard they'd put Matthews in the lineup over Kotchman. They could probably dump Matthews onto someone while picking up a good amount of the contract.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 09:45 AM) hahaha yes what? I think it was the part when you asked whether we'd trade Danks, Egbert, and Uribe for Bedard. It would take a lot more than that.

QUOTE(max power @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:09 PM) I only used the word proven because some other poster did. Obviously nothing in baseball is completely proven. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I looked at their career averages. They are below average pitchers. People keep putting words in my mouth, saying I am basing my opinion on one down year. I am not. I thought I made that clear already. Is English your second language? I feel like this is a tigers fan site lately. You looked at the career averages of a 25 year old player, ignoring the statistical trends, and concluded he sucks? Don't you think career averages are quite misleading in this case? Especially when you consider Bonderman was 9-1 w/ 3.48 ERA in 16 first half starts (continuing his career trend) until dealing with elbow trouble the rest of the season. I could understand looking at career averages for pitchers who jump around statistically, but the trends in these cases are pretty steady.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 05:52 PM) If that happened, wouldn't that put us in just as good of shape or nearly as good as before we made this trade? I don't think there's any chance of Crede bringing in anything close to what Swisher brought in.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 04:35 PM) i'd take andrew miller any day over dontrelle willis. So would I, but not at Miller's 2007 production level.

QUOTE(DaGame2584 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) Exactly! I'm glad Billy Beane reads BA. Nick will great for this team, and Jim Parque Jr. won't be more than a #4 or #5. I wouldnt go that far. Gio is a nice looking prospect, but certainly not the type that's irreplaceable.

Vs RHP 1. Cabrera 2. Swisher 3. Thome 4. Konerko 5. Dye 6. Fields 7. Pierzynski 8. Quentin 9. Richar I'd bump the order down one vs LHP with Ozuna leading off. I'd sit Thome vs LHP, but I don't know if there's anyone on the bench worth replacing him with.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 01:59 PM) Where did I say he was an All-Star? He could easily have an All-Star season, but all i asked is, which is better for building a team, Josh Fields + Nick Swisher + John Danks or just Miguel Cabrera? I think the answer is fairly obvious. I agree with you there. It just seemed you had a different opinion by the way you worded it. Swisher has work to be done to categorize the trade as a "steal" in terms of current value especially when you have a GM who actively tries to make trades work for both teams.

Kenny is on the phone with the Dodgers as we speak.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 01:10 PM) LOL ... He's been traded 3 times in 3 years. You'd could say he's a journeyman minor leaguer. Yeah no doubt. He's no Hughes or Kershaw thats for sure. We'll find another Gio.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 01:04 PM) Let me reword it this way for clarification purposes. We don't have Pods and Erstad. Uribe won't be starting. We've got a high OBP guy in Swisher, now. The heart of our order all had a down year in '07 and you'd have to expect some of them to get back to their career norms. As for Willis, I just don't believe the guy will have any success in the AL. I may be wrong and if so, I'll say i was wrong. But I think the AL hitters will rock his world. That may be so, but what Detroit got out of the 5th spot last season was rocked. At worst, Willis is a lateral move. He'd have to really really suck to be a downgrade. With Bonderman and Robertson rebounding, their rotation should be improved. How much is a different story, but it should see some improvement.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:51 PM) The Sox offense should be much better WITH the new additions. The Tiger's rotation? Hell, I don't know. But Dontrell Willis does not worry me. Ok. Reword it, whatever. Willis should be an upgrade over the crap they had in 4/5 spot last season and Bonderman/Robertson should be better after down years last season. So 60% of the rotation should be improved.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:29 PM) And then there's those people that look at Sox players after a down year and say they suck but opponents down years are reasons to expect them to rebound. Yep. The Sox offense should be much better than last season even without the new additions and the Tigers rotation should be much better than last season even without the new addition.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:00 PM) What's not to like with this trade? Saying DLS and Gio were our top two prospects was like saying they finished 1-2 in the Special Olympics. That statement holds no weight because of just how bad our farm system is... Kenny was cleaning house for a clean start and while doing so got a 27 year old switch hitter just waiting to get out of Oakland. Going from the best pitchers park in the AL to the best hitters park is going to make a huge difference in Swisher's value. DLS is 3 years away from contributing and will more than likely wind up in the bullpen, Gio has been traded three times and obviously is more valuable to franchises used as bait, and Sweeney was never getting another shot. What you get is a high OBP guy like Swisher who will easily hit .280 in the Cell with high power numbers (rotoworld already projects 35-40 HRs) who is locked up to an economically sound contract for another 4 years. THEN you get to his attitude and marketability. This is a steal. Folks b****ed when Kenny didn't get Miguel Cabrera for those three prospects + Danks and Fields. Which is better? Cabrera or Swisher, Fields, Danks? This is a PHENOMENAL TRADE. Kenny stole one, and only White Sox fans would b**** after getting a young stud just entering his prime who has position versatility as well. I however, am an enlightened White Sox fan. Take it easy with that. I don't think we should be anointing Swisher just yet. He's still got some work to do before even becoming an all-star caliber player.

QUOTE(max power @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:28 AM) Look at their entire careers. That's what I did. They've had one good year each. Up until last season, Robertson and Bonderman were steadily improving each season in the bigs. They certainly haven't proven they suck. If these guys suck what the hell does that make Contreras who has been in steady decline or Danks/Floyd who have done jack s*** in the bigs? I love how some people point to other teams players and say they suck after down seasons, yet they are the same people pointing to some of the Sox players' down years as reasons why the Sox will be better in 2008. Which is it? Let's be realistic here.

The cupboard is empty. We don't have what it takes to acquire a solid SP. Face it, the only chance we have is to strike gold in one of reclamation projects.

Don't let Bonderman's 5.01 ERA fool you on exactly how bad he was last year. His component ERC, which measure what pitchers ERA should have been by taking into account his peripherals, was 4.44. Certainly not great, but certainly not horrible.

QUOTE(max power @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 11:07 AM) Yeah, two are proven to suck and one is proven to be 43 years old. So what does that prove? Who's proven to suck? Why because a couple of them had one down year last season? If that's the case, Contreras is the worst SP in the AL, Danks is horrendous, and Floyd is garbage.

The major difference between the Sox' and Tigers' rotations is this...their question marks are proven at the Major League level. The questions they have is what level they will perform at, but you can bet that all of them will be effective enough to remain at the Major League level. We don't even know if 40% of our rotation can even pitch at the Major League level. Detroit's rotation is a lot more stable going into this season.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jan 4, 2008 -> 12:01 AM) No matter what you think of the Tribune, it WAS a very high price to pay and the writer makes points that (for the most part) can't be argued. I agree with the poster above who mention Richar and Quentin's averages in the majors have to be taken with a grain of salt. I don't believe this trade puts the Sox into the playoff chase and I don't like the deal, but we are better and 90 losses definately won't happen. This will clearly be a +.500 team, which means if a few things go right here and there the team could slip into the playoffs. But I wont hold my breath on it. I wouldn't bet the house. 60% of the rotation could blow up in our faces. It won't matter how good the offense hits if that happens.