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So regarding Engel's lukewarm defensive metrics...I trust this more https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/outs_above_a...2017&min=50 God I love baseball savant.

I'm still always surprised by Moncada's speed. Speed is something where sometimes its kind of like a tier, where you are either fast, or acceptable, or paul konerko. And then some players just hit you with how much faster than "fast" you can be. When Yoan rounds third sometimes I think it's going to be like a cartoon, where he's running so fast the ground is going to start rolling up like a carpet behind him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 12:40 PM) This is a good post. Plus if you wait another year you get to see if he sticks to his conditioning through another offseason.

This figures to be a high scoring affair, so when you mix in "baseball gonna baseball" I'd say 2-1 sox win.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 12:26 PM) They got a #7. I think the Nets pick will be in that range (unless the ping pong Gods say otherwise). I don't see it being demonstrably worse, especially if what the pundits say is true, i.e., that this upcoming draft won't be as good. They didn't get a #7, they traded UP to a #7. They gave up their first round pick to move up to a back end top 10. Had the bulls received that, they would be looking at 2 top ten picks next year. And if they didn't like that draft, they could spin that asset off for future drafts or players they preferred. It is very valuable.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 12:14 PM) I don't disagree with any of this except for the "demonstrably worse" comment. I still don't see the return being "demonstrably worse" than what Cleveland got. If you think the purpose of trading Butler is to get equal NBA talent I guess I could see that, but if the purpose is to get the best future assets to set off rebuilding a championship team, I don't know how you don't see the unprotected Nets pick as an example of the single most important thing the bulls needed to start collecting. Instead at the end of draft night they had less picks than when they started. How they are still around...

And to be honest, I think that's the change. Some of this may be an actual switch to leftist positions, but another part of it is also a shift from the technocratic solutions delivered since the 1990s. Solving complex problems with deploying hundreds of mechanisms all to put market pressure on a not-true market to deliver healthcare instead of just either delivering healthcare yourself aligned to the goals or delivering the insurance yourself is the shift. Medicare is cheaper, relatively, and people "get" it. The biggest takeaway from the ACA is that the medicaid expansion was the most popular part. It also, at one time of the process, was the only part people thought could get passed. But, I think this will be applied to certain cases. And I think the left is going to be surprised at how often people will prefer non-government solutions. But in those cases, I'm sure they will just blame and fight the liberal wing and a fascist regime will take over. History as ever.

He's not a power hitter but he is a streaky power hitter. He may very well have a 5 hr in 15 game stretch that makes it look better than you assume.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 11:50 AM) What other deal was out there btw? I love to criticize the Bulls FO as much as anyone else (I was clearly on the side arguing that trading Butler for just about ANY deal was a dumb move), but I think people are complaining about other hypothetical returns that simply were not there. I think they did the best they could and it's a pretty decent return relative to what these other teams got for their star players. That's all i'm saying. I hate statements like this. This has been going on for years in this thread. The assumption that what has transpired was inevitable. This organization "did their best" to try and put together a championship roster and failed. "Did their best" to hire good coaches and failed. "Did their best" to trade for superstars and failed. "Did their best" to sign top free agents and failed. But when they "did their best" to trade a top 15 player in the game and did demonstrably worse than a championship winning front office with a comparable asset that did better, it's "What more could the bulls have done?" They could have acquired better assets for years. They could have drafted other, better assets for years. They could have trade Butler sooner. They could have traded Butler later.

Whatever parallels there may be, the most distinguishing factors of Trump are his corruption, incredible dishonesty, ignorance, vanity, misogyny, bigotry and racism are what defines him. If the parallel is "good at slogans they can't can't carry to the finish line" there are actual good examples of parallels you can find. But, yes, this screams "You know who else provided government health programs to their people?"

QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) The problem with waiting is that he could get too expensive. There are obviously 3 possible directions for his career path: 1) He regresses and is not worthy of a spot on the roster 2) He progresses and adds more power to his offense 3) He remains pretty much what he was, this season. If you believe that outcomes 2 and 3 are the most probable, you try to sign him to a medium term, perhaps 5 or 6 year extension, at a cost commenserate with this year's performance. If he you get either outcome 2 or 3, going forward, you are fine. The only risk is outcome #1. I'd rather take that gamble, than wait till he can command a big free agent contract, where the risk would be too great. Remember, once he reaches free agency, management can no longer offer the enticement of increasing a player's salary, over what he would earn in arbitration, and they have lost control. Therefore, it's as simple as "to the highest bidder". It's no wonder many owners are so reluctant to sign expensive free agents. They know what all of us know, that you are paying for past performance, just when a player is entering the years when he will start to regress. Ultimately, it is up to the coaches and the organization to make an astute and realistic evaluation of a player and his performance, in order to make a reasonable assumption regarding whether he will regress, improve or stay the same. So many factors enter into that assessment. They should know most about a player's physical tools, mental toughness, dedication, work ethic and all of the other intangible, as well as tangible aspects of his make up. We have to trust that they will make a reasonably wise and prudent decision. With arb and everything we currently have a probably 30 million committed to 2018. Avi, in this incredible season, is still probably only a 3.5 WAR player. A 3.5 WAR corner outfielder without big power heading into his 30s is not going to be too expensive unless offense becomes impossible to find in the next 2 years, which I doubt.

Wade tore his meniscus, not ACL. The only player that comparably relies on athleticism like Lavine is Lowry and Jabari Parker, and Parker has had multiple leg problems now. IT is probably in trouble, but the Bulls also got damaged goods. But most importantly, they got an unprotected pick from a terrible team. Yeah, the east is bad, but look at this roster: http://www.espn.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/bkn/brooklyn-nets

I really hope he sticks at 3rd. Kanny/W-S going to be pretty creative with DH with these corner IF/crowded OF stuff going on. Granted, hopefully Burger/Sheets move up quickly.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 11:03 AM) That hip issue sounds much worse than a torn acl. Not to mention the guy is 5'9 and relies primarily on quickness and is already a terrible defender. Lavine also relies on athleticism. I think there is way too much assumption in bulls camp that he comes back as the same player. ACL injuries in basketball have not been kind.

I think we got too used to having every player locked up for 5 years. Again, just let him play out. If he's really this good, we'll have money to sign him.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 15, 2017 -> 10:28 AM) Originally...yes...after all these medical reports, I am less convinced of such. Just imagine if it turned out IT was coming off of a torn ACL!

Whoa what an offensive day for the first 5 hitters. 6 times on base for Yoan! 7 RBI for Avi! Damn

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 01:57 PM) I meant other as in, In addition to the players you listed, Micker Adolfo was the only OTHER one I could think of. Yeah, kinda weird but Alfaro actually played in AZL at 17 and then went to DSL for his 18 season. But again, that was a typically bad 17 year old stateside season, with a .450 OPS. It looks like at least 1 a class is put stateside. It is interesting that they chose him over Joseu.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) The only other player I can think of they moved here at 17 is Micker. It seems to me they must see something if he is in that kind of company. You are right Nunez was actually 18, but Franklin Reyes was 17 in AZL last year.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 01:27 PM) Beating the sox with below average stuff because they play in a s***ty dome? Ha, that's what I know Radke for.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 01:13 PM) Shields looking like Brad Radke. As someone not watching the game...what does this mean?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) The have only moved a few guys here at 17. That is probably the biggest endorsement of Sosa that I can give. Right, but so were Reyes and Nunez. And he performed better than both. I just want an idea of what they think they have here.

I just want a star wars move that every time its on I'll sit and watch no matter what point it is just because I love the scenes and characters so much. I actually left thinking TFA was that, only to rewatch and it and just being super super bored. Like, I'll watch edge of tomorrow literally every time its on. I wanted that.

I probably shouldn't rule out the dbacks since they too have tried to expand their pool and have the bigger bonus (5.75 mill) pool money than TX.

QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 14, 2017 -> 10:34 AM) Its something Hillary is saying a lot on her book tour while blaming him, partly, for her loss. It is equally annoying that Sanders can critique Clinton's campaign/DNC without hand clenching, while any criticism of Sanders from Clinton is seen as outside the lines.