Wong & Owens

Why not wait a little while, and get Garcia AND Guardado? Seattle is old, and going nowhere this year. They have good arms in the minors that they can build around, so what I imagine they'll want are young hitters. Send them Borchard, Dransfeldt, and some other minor league hitters, and I think Seattle takes it without thinking twice.

I think things like Columbine get blown way out of proportion. What I mean is, when you take the total number of high school kids today, then count the number of violent psychotics who shoot up classrooms, you surely would get the same ratio as you would for society as a whole, no? There will always be bullies, always be victims, and, sadly, always be a Ryan Harris or Dylan Kleibold lurking somewhere. It's human nature, and no level of security can ever totally eradicate it. Extra security measures won't do much but create an atmosphere that I would not feel comfortable subjecting my kid to every day. Look at the big picture, is the chance of your kid getting hurt at school REALLY any worse now than it was 30 years ago?

The 60% figure represents those that identify themselves as Christian. It does not mean that they go to Church, were Baptized, went to Catholic schools, or any other religious association. I think it's actually higher. I think the actual number is like 170 million. I don't remember. But to illustrate the loose association the predominant answer of young people to the poll is "well my Mom is so I guess that makes me one". In other words it more closely resembles America as a whole than anything else. The number that acticely participate is more like 30% wrt to Christians. About 25-30 million Catholics & then all the other denominations. **THAT'S WHAT I KIND OF THOUGHT. AND, IN THAT CASE I DON'T THINK IT'S AT ALL FAIR TO ALLOW THE PEOPLE WHO ANSWERED YES TO THE POLL SIMPLY BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS WERE CHRISTIAN, TO BE COUNTED AS CHRISTIAN. I CAN'T CALL MYSELF A MEMBER OF THE SINN FEIN, JUST BECAUSE MY PARENTS ARE IRISH. THEREFORE, THE TRUE NUMBER BEING CLOSER TO 30%, THUS NOT BEING A TRUE REPRESENTATION OF A MAJORITY IN AMERICA. You shouldn't equate the absence of prayer in schools with atheism in general. The absence of prayer in schools is a much bigger problem dealing with the absence of the teaching morality & ethics in schools **MAYBE I'M MISINTERPRETING HERE, BUT IT SURE SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE CONTRACDICTING YOURSELF. YOU CONTINUE TO LINK PRAYER WITH MORALITY, YET AGREE THAT ATHEISTS(THOSE WHO DO NOT PRAY) ARE NOT IMMORAL. ISN'T EXPLAINING MORALITY USING SAY, THE GOLDEN RULE(WHICH CAN APPEAL TO ALL RELIGIONS / NON-RELIGIONS) BOTH EASIER TO UNDERSTAND, AS WELL AS TO TEACH TO YOUNG PEOPLE? WHY ANY NEED TO GO FURTHER?

It's got to be Diaz, unless they saw something in Grilli in Spring Training that makes them think he'd be better.

I was never on a high horse. I recognize this as a sports message board & that sparing with words is par for the course. I never called any one out on being unkind or mean-spirited. But I do believe when others weigh in on that subject in detail it's time to tone it down. So that is what I am doing. **GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. LET'S DANCE: group representing about 60% of the US population is not of much value. **WHICH GROUP IS THIS? BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT 60% OF THE U.S. POPULATION ACTIVELY PARTICIPATES IN A RELIGION OF SOME SORT--I DON'T BUY IT. THERE'S A REASON WHY CATHOLIC CHURCHES/SCHOOLS GET CLOSED EVERY YEAR(AT LEAST IN CHICAGO, BUT I'M SURE IT'S NOT THE ONLY PLACE)--PEOPLE AREN'T PARTICIPATING AS MUCH ANYMORE. I'D BE INTERESTED IN SEEING DATA THAT SHOWS 60% OF AMERICANS ATTEND SERVICES REGULARLY. I do not recall where it was ever said that atheists are immoral. **IN YOUR POST IN WHICH YOU STATED THAT ADDING PRAYER TO SCHOOL WOULD LOWER RATES OF LYING, CHEATING, MOLESTATION, ET AL. IF ATHEISTS AREN'T IMMORAL, THEN WHY ANY NEED TO ADD PRAYER TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS? I don't see how this added fuel to the fire in this thread since this thread is mostly concerned with moral philosophies & the need to teach them in schools. **I SEEM TO HAVE POSTED THIS IN THE WRONG THREAD. IT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE GONE UNDER THE CUTURE WAR THREAD. MY BAD.

But did you see this comment from that link?: White Sox at #4?! Twins at #11?? Posted by mr32669 May 6, 2:21 pm What a joke! this is just another example of how the Twins are absolutely invisible on the national radar screen. Come June 1st you will NOT see the White Sox in 1st. Never has a back to back division winn er gotten so little respect

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creationism/M...ndDivorce.shtml More fuel for the fire. And, as for my alleged hostile post, JUGGERNAUT, any hositlity in this thread has been started by you, and if I defended in kind, well, I should know better. But get off your high horse--this may your first post in which you did respond kindly.

No, a kid who brings his Bible to school, wears his crucifix and prays the rosary at lunch should be left alone the same as a kid who wears his SOX hat to school, with his Ordonez jersey, and reads the baseball almanac at lunch. Freedom of expression doesn't exclude religious ideas.

To suggest that your ethics class would be a 180 deg turn from mine is a clear indication you don't know what you're talking about. **SINCE I THINK THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO MY POST I'LL ANSWER IT. I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. MAYBE SINCE I HAVE YET TO SEE AS MANY AS ONE POST IN SUPPORT OF ANY OF YOUR RIDICULOUS POSITIONS, MAYBE YOU'RE THE ONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. Ethics in engineering is about determining the range of specifications & what is acceptable for production within that range. It discusses everything from stress limits to dollar costs for failure. **WHICH IS NOT THE TYPE OF "ETHICS" THAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED, AND YOU KNOW IT. THE "ETHICS" IN DISCUSSION WERE OF THE TYPE THAT FANOF14 WAS TALKING ABOUT, AND EVERYBODY WHO'S POSTED ON THE TOPIC HAS FIGURED THAT OUT BUT YOU. OR ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT YOU WANTED TO START A DISCUSSION ABOUT INSTALLING A COURSE ABOUT "determining the range of specifications & what is acceptable for production within that range. " AT THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL LEVEL? AND IF SO, THEN WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH MORALITY? AND WHY ARE YOU CONSTANTLY USING BOTH WORDS IN THE SAME SENTENCE? When you think of ethics in engineering you should think more along the lines of quality assurance. **NOBODY THINKS OF ETHICS IN THAT VEIN, AND EVEN IF THAT DEFINITION IS CORRECT, IT STILL DOESN'T ANSWER WHY YOU MENTION THAT AND MORALITY TOGETHER OFTEN ENOUGH AS IF THEY WERE THE SAME THING?

OK, here's a few ideas, using the exact same format as the spankwad cartoon: #1)Northsiders: pic of Wrigley in center of frame, with "N" car driving round and round, while game is going on in stadium Southsiders: shot of "S" car easily parking across street from US Cellular, walking to seat, in seat cheering as game begins #2)Northsiders: pic of room full of "n" people, crowding around trough, all urinating on each other. One "N" passes out from stench. Southsiders: Pic of organized, smooth-flowing lines to individual urinals at US Cell. #3)Northsiders: pic of Wrigley bleachers, filled with "N"'s. Homerun ball caught by fan, thrown back. Child "N" shown weeping, Ball-thrower burps and falls out of bleachers onto Waveland, caught by street-dwelling "N"'s. Southsiders: Homerun ball hit to outfield at US Cell, "s" fan catches it, hands it off to young "S" fan. Young "S" fan shown with enormous smile on face, then shown sleeping with ball.

I saw that. The "vendors" segment is grossly inaccurate, and it's convenient they didn't feature segments on bathrooms, parking, obstructed view seating, or blaming some schlub fan for one of the biggest choke-jobs in Chicago sports history. If anyone has the graphic capabilities/knowledge, I have some great ideas for a "rebuttal" video.

He is getting the saves, but very few of them have come when the Sox had a 1-run lead upon his entry. If you think he'll continue getting saves by walking 3 batters per inning, you're nuts. Just because he's had a lucky 4-outing run shouldn't mean we need not be concerned.

Alrighty, Mr. Smarty-Jones Pants Trevor Hoffman and Keith Foulke. No super-heaters there. I don't think Rivera is known for hitting upper-90's either. Urbina, Guardado, Cordero, Borowski, Graves, and Mesa are all successful closers without high heat either, yes?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Loaiza lead the AL in strikeouts last season? If not, he was in the top 3. A blazing fastball? Possess one, he does not.

On Thursday, April 22, 1982, John Rickert, pitching for Bowler High School and coach Ray Murphy, threw a perfect game against Iola-Scandanavia High School. On Thursday, April 22, 2004, Mike Rickert(John's son), pitching for Bowler High School and coach Ray Murphy, threw a perfect game against Iola-Scandanavia High School.

I'm with you Mathew. I have a feeling that if Juggs was in charge of teaching the ethics class at school A, and I was in charge of teaching the ethics class at school B, we'd be talking about two very different classes here.

WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO SUBJECT THE ENTIRE CLASS(AS WELL AS WASTE OF CLASS TIME) TO EACH RELIGIOUS GROUP'S PRAYER? CANT YOU PRAY BEFORE SCHOOL? AFTER SCHOOL? AFTER DINNER? BEFORE GOING TO BED? WHY THE HELL IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO FORCE PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO INSERT A DAILY PRAYER INTO THE CURRICULUM? IT'S POINTLESS.

AGAIN, SEMANTICS. THE POINT WAS YOUR LUDICROUS CLAIM THAT PRAYER IN SCHOOLS MIGHT SOMEHOW MAKE ALL THESE PROBLEMS GO AWAY. I WAS JUST POINTING OUT CLEAR EXAMPLES HOW THIS THEORY IS BUNK. IT IS NO LESS TRUE TO SAY THAT ABOLISHING PRAYER EVERYWHERE MIGHT HAVE THE SAME EFFECT ON LIFE IN AMERICA. PRAYER IS RELIGION, TO A LARGE DEGREE, AND THERE IS NO BASIS IN FACT THAT A "RELIGIOUS" PERSON CAUSES ANY LESS PROBLEMS THAN A NON-RELIGIOUS PERSON.

It does not mean the State can not HELP assist any institution that has an affiliation with a Church. There is NOT one WORD in the Constitution that either states or implies this. What it means is that the State can NOT ACKNOWLEDGE any Church ruling, provision, etc. as a formal ruling of the State. The purpose of this separation was to PREVENT the emergence of what had taken place in Europe up to that time. It was to prohibit FORCED acceptance of state ruling on the basis of their religious affiliation. An abuse that was common in Europe at the time. **HAIR-SPLITTING SEMANTICS. THE PURPOSE OF THE SEPARATION WAS TO KEEP ANY RELIGIOUS GROUPS FROM TAKING OVER AND EXERTING UNDUE INFLUENCE OVER THOSE GROUPS THAT DON'T AGREE WITH THEM. SCHOOLS ARE FOR READING, MATH, SCIENCE, ETC. Do you realize how your points are defeating themselves? First you say that segregation should be allowed in all fairness but then you want to deny it on your belief that a God based school deserves special prohibition over any other idealogical school? **SPECIAL PROHIBITION? WHAT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN? If Juggernaut were leader of Germany in the 1930's the Jews would have a clear & present voice in government & the funds to education their children as they see fit. **NOW THIS IS LAUGHABLE. UNDER YOUR PROPOSED SYSTEM, THE GERMAN JEWS WOULD NEVER RECEIVE ANY BENEFITS FROM THEIR GOV'T, BECAUSE THE PERCENTAGE OF JEWS ISN'T HIGH ENOUGH.

God forbid if prayer in schools might lead to : 1) reduced cheating**BECAUSE JIM BAKKER NEVER GOT CAUGHT SWINDLING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 2) reduced lying **BECAUSE GEORGE W. BUSH NEVER LIED ABOUT GETTING BUSTED ON A DWI 3) reduced molesting**BECAUSE NO PRIEST HAS EVER BEEN ACCUSED OF MOLESTING A CHILD 4) reduced taunting **BECAUSE NO CHRISTIAN HAS EVER TAUNTED A PEACE-LOVING MUSLIM SINCE 9/11 5) reduced emotional abuse **BECAUSE NO BATTERED WIFE WAS EVER TOLD BY A RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY TO STAY IN AN ABUSINVE MARRIAGE 6) reduced physical abuse **BECAUSE THE INQUISTION, HOLOCAUST, AND CRUSADES NEVER HAPPENED 7) reduced drug usage **BECAUSE ED MEESE WASN'T A DRUNK.

If you again believe that if a majority of students desire to hold prayer in their classroom should be prohibited then please relocate to a Godless country. Since you have no real basis to debate the subject there's no point in my elaborating. **THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES IS PREDICATED ON SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. IF THE STATE IS FUNDING THE SCHOOL, THEN NO CHURCH CAN EXERT INFLUENCE OVER IT. IS THAT ENOUGH BASIS FOR DEBATE, MEIN FUHRER? I find it amusing how your argument towards retaining bad teachers coincides with the Church's argument of retaining bad priests: there are so few of them. Quality is far better than quanity & technology makes quality more available to answer the question of quantity. **OH, IT'S THAT EASY IS IT? WELL YOU JUST HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, DON'T YOU? YOU KNOW WHY THERE ARE SO FEW PRIESTS? BECAUSE NOBODY BELIEVES IN THEM ANYMORE. IF 85% OF PEOPLE ARE SO GOD-FEARING, THEN YOU'D THINK MORE OF THEM WOULD BE WILLING TO WALK THE WALK IF IT WAS SUCH A BIG DEAL.

1) By what right do you have to force Godless behavior on those who show reverance to God? Do you not believe that these people have a right to segregate themselves from you? **SURE THEY DO, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PRIVATE, CATHOLIC(OR OTHER DEMONINATIONS) SCHOOLS FOR THOSE WHO WANT THEIR CHILDREN TAUGHT IN A CHRISTIAN(OR JEWISH, WHATEVER) ENVIRONMENT. YOU CAN SEGREGATE YOURSELVES IN WHATEVER ORGANIZATIONS YOU WANT, TRUST ME, THE ATHEISTS WANT NO PART OF YOU. I wish your stats were true, but they are not. Roughly 85% of Americans profess a belief in God. But only about 25% of them practice that belief on a daily or weekly basis. Just 30 yrs ago that number was as high as 40% & 15 yrs before that it was as high as 70%. Clearly God's absence from the class room has had a dramatic effect on that number. **NO, THE EVOLUTION OF THE HUMAN RACE IS WHAT HAS HAD THE BIGGEST EFFECT ON THAT NUMBER. God should never be a requirement in a class room, but it should be an option. It should never be a prohibition & it is today. **IN A PUBLIC CLASSROOM, YOU'RE DAMNED RIGHT IT SHOULD BE PROHIBITED. when they see children punished for showing reverance to their faith? **WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS? WHERE IS THIS HAPPENING? Parents simply will not bother to teach things to their children that might cause them stress. **THEN THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT HAVING KIDS. EDUCATION, ESPECIALLY MORAL AND ETHICAL EDUCATION, BEGINS AT HOME, OR IT WON'T BE LEARNED AT ALL. Why then do we not have term limits & elections for teachers & school admins? **ARE YOU EVEN THE SLIGHTEST BIT AWARE OF THE MAJOR TEACHER SHORTAGE GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY? PUT TERM LIMITS ON THEIR JOB, AND WATCH THE NUMBER QUICKLY DWINDLE TO ZERO. AND THAT'S JUST ONE REASON WHY THAT RIDICULOUS PROPOSAL WON'T WORK.

More importantly than the symbolism of what God represents is the Christian value system. **I GUESS PISS ON THE JEWISH, MUSLIM, OR BUDDHIST VALUE SYSTEMS. THEY MUST BE WORTHLESS. JUST SOUNDS LIKE TYPICAL, CLOSE-MINDED CHRISTIAN BULLs*** TO ME. The Godless have by & large rejected that system. **I AM ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC, AND I WILL PUT MY ETHICAL, MORAL, AND COMMUNITY SERVICE "RECORDS" UP AGAINST 99% OF CHRISTIANS, AND I WILL ANNIHILATE THEM--I GUARANTEE IT. LAST I CHECKED, THE GODLESS HAVE NEVER KILLED AN ABORTION DOCTOR, NEVER KILLED SCORES OF PEOPLE FOR DISAGREEING WITH THEIR ATHEISTIC VIEWS, AND NEVER TOLD ANYONE THEY WERE DOOMED TO A LIFE IN HELL FOR NOT AGREEING WITH THEM. BY AND LARGE, THE RELIGIOUS CAN BITE MY CRANK. Even in Japan, & China (traditionally Godless nations) ** SIMPLY INCORRECT. WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION? You may think girls & boys making out in front of public schools with the same sex is the norm, but again it's not. **6' 11" STUDENTS, OR STUDENTS WITH ONE ARM AREN'T THE NORM EITHER. WHO CARES -- EXTRA TALL FOLK, GALS WITH ONE ARM, AND GUYS WHO MAKE OUT WITH GUYS ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON, THEY DON'T HURT ANYBODY. As you suggested the best answer is to provide freedom of choices: straights, mixed, & non-straights. Let the parents decide which group they want their students education fostered by. **AS LONG AS EACH GROUP GETS EQUAL PUBLIC FUNDING, AND EQUAL PUBLIC RESOURCES, THEN FINE. BUT GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

Well, I was just going to call him a raving lunatic, but I'll defer to your gentler, more diplomatic rebuttal. If you need a little more vitriol on behalf of the atheist/agnostic side, lemme know, I gotch yo back!

You know, when I first saw that, I was pissed, but after I thought about it, the Sox are barely beating some of the worst teams in the AL. The only good team they faced was going through probably their worst stretch of the season. I can't say they deserve to be ranked much higher, until they start playing some good teams. However, the Twins haven't had a much harder schedule, so who knows what's in the ESPN Kool-Aid.