ptatc

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 18, 2010 -> 06:56 AM) I'm cautiously optimistic. Esp. as the doctors say Jake can go "full-bore" in Feb. I'd be more concerned if the injury was to his shoulder or arm. There's less stress and torque on the lat muscle for Peavy pitching. Yet the fact that no pitcher has had this injury before raises alarm bells. And questions about if he can come back and for how long. That doesn't even take into account a possible injury to his elbow or arm if he overcompensates for the lat injury. Oh well, it's the season of hope, right. There is a lot of stress on the lat during throwing. It is the primary internal rotator of the shoulder. so when the arm is coming forward it is provding most of the power. That being said it isn't a stabilizer of the joint which is why it isn't under the same type of stress as the rotator cuff which needs to hold the joint together and slow the arm down during the follow through. The challenge for the rest of the rehab will be to strengthen the muscle that was dormant for months. That takes time but is just a prcess that will happen but you just aren't sure of the time frame with regards to getting the "stuff" back on the pitches. I'm confident it will happen in time for the season or at least early in the season but that will be the only limiting factor.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 10:12 PM) I really doubt Rowand was on PEDs. Although he did look kinda ripped. Especially for a guy of his size. He was when he was with the Sox. I'm not sure if he is now because I haven't seen him lately.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 09:59 PM) Really dude? Yes

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 07:49 PM) Besides greg? Rowand's slash line the last three years: .257/.318/.405/.723. Declining defense across the board. 2004/2005 was a long time ago. Nobody misses Rowand outside of nostalgia sentiment. the PED dealers in Chicago missed him. In SF he went back to his friends in Las Vegas.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 01:43 PM) ...see Jake Peavy or Chris Sale...yikes. Sale doesn't actually drop down very far. He has a shortened wind up due to the angle he holds his elbow during the early wind up. Because of this he can't get his hand up over his head in time so he throws from a lower arm slot. however he compensates some by leaning to the side with his back so his actual arm angle isn't as bad as you think. It's an odd motion but not as bad as some are making it out to be. Peavy on the other hand needs to stay with his normal motion and not drop down so far when he tries to trick hitters.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 09:47 AM) IMO, the ENTIRE problem is psychological, which explains why every year the Twins destroy us and make it into the playoffs they get destroyed by any team they play, even if it's NOT the Yankees. Their team pitching and hitting were marginally better than ours last year, but they somehow won just about every game they played against us in grand blowout fashion. Statistically, being that they are marginally better in every way, that should result in them being 1 or 2 games better in head to head play...but it never turns out that way, because every time the Sox play them (no matter how good the Sox are), it's like Superman playing a solid block of Kryptonite for who knows what reason. Though if I had to venture a guess, the reason is that Hawk (and many others, including Ozzie Guillen in the Sox organization) gush over s***ty players like Carlos Gomez and how great he is -- when he sucks in every way possible -- not to mention build up the Twins as an invincible enemy. They need to take a queue from the 1980 US Olympic Hockey Coach, Herb Brooks with the Twins. Rather than coming in and building the Russians up as an invincible team and telling them that in comparison they suck, he chipped away at the Russians, making fun of them in every way he could think of, belittling them just enough every day that their aura of invincibility was dimmed in the eyes of the players. In contrast, if you ask Hawk, Ozzie, or anyone else in the Sox organization, the Twins are better than the Sox -- in every way, every single year -- so there is no point in trying. This entire conversation infuriates me, and serves as a lesson in exactly how you DO NOT COACH your players into thinking their opponents are better than they are. The other version could be that the Twins believe they have an advantage over the Sox because they have beaten the Sox and they have the psychological advantage not because we play down but because they play up. The psychological advantage or disadvantage is a two way street, it doesn't always have to be that the Sox have the problem or the manager or GM screwed it up. The other team is a factor as well.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 06:54 AM) Thank you both for the great insight. That was exactly the kind of information which I was seeking. I did see somewhere that he is trying to acquire a good splitter. That's a much less stressful pitch than the slider, and very effective, isn't it? the split finger is actually more stressful on the arm in general if both pitches are thrown properly. To throw the split you need to have more wrist action than a normal pitch. you need to flex the wrist quickly to get the extra spin which causes it to drop. All other pitches should be thrown with a stiff wrist (in different positions for different pitches) and use more finger action. The slider becomes more stressful when the pitcher drops down or straighten the elbow to get more "slide" across the plate instead of downward motion.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 06:10 PM) Nobody comes to mind. But if Boston thinks they can use Jenks as an 8th inning guy, they might be thinking the wrong way. If he knows that's his role, he'll be fine. It's when you're prepared and used to closing throughout a season and when you know there is nothing on the line that you lose focus. Inclose games when he knows it's his job to get to the closer, he'll keep his focus and be fine.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 04:39 PM) What kind of dumbass decides he doesn't want an extra $2M when he'd be playing in the same city and for a contender? I guy who has made plenty of money and just wants to play for a certain team. I would go with the better chance of winning but everyone has different priorities.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 02:06 PM) Especially with the Green Monster in LF. This is still a good spot for him though, he has a great shot of winning a title. I believe the last time an Ex- White Sox closer went there, they did win the World Series for the first time in 80 some years. Good Luck Bobby (except against us)!!!!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 08:33 AM) There are 2 obvious "Losses" from the lineup in terms of production. First, we've lost Andruw Jones, who was legitimately good for a few wins last year. Second, we've probably gone from the MVPaulie to the regular 30-ish HR paulie, which is a win or two as well. That production on its own solely ought to be made up by having Dunn in the lineup instead of Kotsay. You could add in that Rios might not have the same May that he did last year again and thus have fewer wins, that would hurt as well. Pierre could take another step backwards, but honestly I doubt that as consistent as he's been. Quentin could be even worse, but if that happens he's going to be replaced by De Aza or someone like that mid-season. On top of that, we've removed a negative player from 3b and at least replaced with nonnegative defense (Teahen to Morel). Alexei had a good year last year, but we all know he still has even better in him if he can get past the crappy start. Outside of Konerko and Rios, it's hard to point at anyone in the lineup and say "this guy had a career year last year". Quentin, Beckham, Alexei, Morel, AJ, there's legitimately 5 guys who have a ton of upside on offense. one thing that I think will help offset the "losses" is a defensive improvement from Morel. I think one of the most important benefits from the dunn signing is that with that offense improvement, the sox can allow Morel to play consistently and not stress as much if he lacks production early. As much as people are happy about the offense improving, the pitching and defense will still determine if the sox are successful this year.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 07:50 AM) I just don't get how that can result in so many bad reads and routes though. There has to be more to it than his injury. There should be. I don't see how left shoulder surgery on a right handed thrower makes much difference unless it is that he is tentative in his approach. He did have TJ surgery on his right elbow but that shouldn't bother his throwing a few years later.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 06:12 PM) $27.5? WTF? lol. Man f*** Cliff Lee. And this is another reason I will NEVER get married. Apparently his wife was a major factor in his decision to go back to Philly. b**** STFU and realize you're pretty worthless and just happen to be married to a professional athlete. So some dumbass Yankee fans were mean to you once. Not saying I wanted him to go to NY. But GMAB. I don't think you need to worry about the getting married thing.

If only we had one of them 5 or 6 years ago....Oh.....wait a minute

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 12, 2010 -> 11:18 AM) It's unfortunate. Mark is a $8 million player making $14 million. But even if he is overpaid, he has earned all his money being the face of the franchise, never missing starts, being a great role model/human being, leading us to a WS and throwing a perfect game. So I am not too bothered that he makes more than he his true on-the-field baseball worth. Not to mention the fact that early in his career when he was making the minimum and far out performing it. This is the way the sytem has been set in baseball under paid early on and over paid at the end.

QUOTE (quickman @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 08:05 AM) thanks very much for the insight. I suppose my real question is can we get away with Peavy throwing the old effective way for the next two years without injury. He has two years on his contract and really I don't care what happens after that. Sounds crass but we are paying him 15 million to be an ace. There isn't an answer to that question. Some pitchers can throw with awful mechanics without problems. My guess is that he cannot do this because the Sox were trying to change his approach. This tells me he was having problems and that's why he they were attempting to change it. Unless they can find a middle ground, he will need to find something different to be effective.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 09:39 AM) What?! I can't speak on Carew as much. But Wade Boggs? Dude was a a 5 time batting champion and a liftetime .328 hitter. He had a career OBP of .415! I repeat: .415! He had more extra basehits in 1 year than JP could get in 5. I must be in the twilight zone. JP is not good. I know he plays for us. But c'mon, guys, just be f***ing honest. I never said JP was better than Boggs. Alot of singles went into those batting titles. I would say JP is ok. I wouldn't miss him but there are worse options. Mediocore is a good description for him. I guess singles aren't sexy.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 08:58 AM) Career stats can be skewed sometimes. Crawford has a .350 OBP the last 5 years. Pierre has a .337 OBP the last 5 years years. Crawford is faster, a better baserunner and a better defender and offers something more than a sissy single in his best-case scenario. There's no comparison. Wade Boggs and Rod Carew are crying.

QUOTE (quickman @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:37 PM) PTAC, these are very encouraging comments about Jake. That said, you mentioned his mechanics. He will most likely have the same mechanics, can we tie his current injury to those mechanics or was this a freak thing? My second question is he basically had most of last year off because of the injury, if mechanics were not responsible for the lat issue then my hope is the extra rest on his shoulder would be an extra benefit and maybe buy us a couple more years of bad mechanics. Is this voodoo logic on my part? This is a unique injury for a pitcher. From observation of his pitching and the pitch on which he injured his shoulder, I think it was caused by throwing sidearm on that pitch. He pitches like Contreras where he like to move his arm angle. The Sox told him not to do this early in the season and he wasn't effective. Once he started doing it again he was effective but we started hearing the " his arm is sore" stuff. The problem is with the way he drops down. He doesn't bend to the side to change the angle like most pitchers do, he stands straight up and throws with his arm to the side. This is what he did when the injury occurred. He can prevent the problems by not pitching this way but I don't know if he can be effective because he obviously wasn't comfortable pitching that way. This may be one problem with the "I'll do whatever I have to to win" attitude he has. The tendon reattachment went well and is a basic procedure, although not for a pitcher. He will need time to rebuild the strength pf the Latissimus Dorsi becuase his been immobilized but there shouldn't be a problem. The key will be is if he can pitch effectively without that angle change or can he and Cooper come up with an angle that still changes the plane of movement but isn't as hard on his shoulder.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) I never said it was the only stat that matters. But if you visit sites such as baseball prospectus and hardball times, it's been legitimately proven that high OBP, not SB or even SLG%, is the best and most reliable way to scoring runs. I don't care about playoff stats. The playoffs are a short sample size and an extreme crapshoot. I'm talking about the marathon that is the 162-game regular season. And Juan Pierre still sucks. This is part of the problem. The team that focuses only on the averages and stats marathon, doesn't necessarily have the good post season team. The post season may be a small sample size but it's the most important sample to win the world series. This is part of the reason you need to use baseball sense along with the stats to create a team that can win in both. If you focus too much on one you may not be able to win the whole the thing which is the goal.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:04 PM) OBP has proven to be the best and most effective way to score runs. Give me a guy with Konerko's speed that can get on base at a .390+ clip over JP and his peak .340 clip. Juan Pierre is not a good baseball player. I believed this in 2006 when he was with the Cubs and I mocked all their fans. And I still believe this. I'll, of course, cheer for JP because he plays LF for my favorite team. But I will not mask my true feelings. I know we contune to disagree on this but I need to bring it up. You can't just use OBP and say it's proven to score runs and that's the way to build a team. The Oakland A's of the past decade are proof. They had alot of players that were high OBP but were lacking in defense and speed. This lead to winning enough games to win the division because on "average" against good and poor teams you scored more runs. However, once they got to the playoffs against the best teams and pitchers the high OBP didn't work anymore. The best pitchers don't give up high OBP to even the best OBP players. In this scenario you need to create runs with either speed (and I mean scoring from first on XBH or something like that not just SBs) or homeruns on a single mistake. There is room for role players. OBP is not the only stat that matters. I agree it is important but it is not the only stat that matters for all players.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 10:29 AM) What about resigning Freddy and making him a long reliever once Peavy returns? I know Freddy's not used to working out of the pen...but it could be a way to make sure his arm lasts a year (and gives us a good backup option in case any other starters end up on the DL) It takes Freddy too long to get warmed up and going. He does alot more than most at this stage of his career. Plus we know he's "big game Freddy." There is no way he would be effective in a long relief/mop up role. Peavy will be healthy and ready for the early in the season if not the beginning of the season. Whether or not he can be effective again without the altered mechanics is anyone's guess.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:24 PM) I hear he was throwing a baseball today, as I posted in the White Sox catch-all thread. http://twitter.com/JakePeavy_44 http://www.facebook.com/JakePeavy44 Unless something goes drastically wrong, he will be ready for early in the season with being very cautious. The big difference between this surgery and most other shoulder surgeries is that this one has little to do with shoulder stabilization. Most shoulder problems in pitchers deal happen because of shoulder looseness or instability, these include rotator cuff, SLAP lesions or biceps tendon issues. This injury was an overload to an extrinsic tendon and should come along quickly once the throwing program really gets going.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 11:48 AM) $104.55M payroll right now, still have the 3 arb guys to sign. The deal isn't bad or great in my mind, it just kind of is. The differed money makes the 3rd year far more palatable. Eh, it's really annoying when money is being thrown around based on past performance and sentimental value as opposed to future value. Konerko only came close to earning his previous $12M per deal in the final year of the deal went he turned in the best year of his career, I don't think this bodes well for his age 35-37 seasons when he'll be earning even more. This is always an interesting discussion. This is the opposite argument for alot of people. Many people look at the player and don't want to pay for future potential only for proven players. I'm not sure where the tipping point is for paying for performance or for potential but I like the discussions.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 08:23 PM) Konerko's injury is different. He actually takes frequent cortisone shots in his hand throughout the season. Its chronic. Kornerko's is a tenosynovitis of thumb tendon's. The condition is known as De Quervain's Syndrome. It causes problem's when youmove your hand from side to side (ulnar and radial deviation) which happens during swinging the bat especially during holding up a swing.