ptatc

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 23, 2009 -> 09:06 AM) Has any official research ever been done on our system and all the injuries pitchers experienced around 1999-2003??? Jason Stumm Danny Wright Jon Rauch Jim Parque Rocky Biddle Lorenzo Barcelo Kelly Wunsch Bobby Howry James Baldwin Mike Sirotka Corwin Malone Kris Honel (he was later) Kip Wells (health problems later) Brandon McCarthy (later) I'm sure I am leaving some names off, just off the top of my head... Was it a run of incredible bad luck, or something that could actually be looked at from a system-wide standpoint, etc.? I'm not familiar with any research on specific White Sox pitchers. Most of the research currently being done onvolves pitch counts, innings pitched and mechanics of the overhead athlete. I'm sure the White Sox have looked at it internally. I've discussed pitch count and mechanics philosophy with members of the White Sox medical staff but not on specific pitchers due to HIPPA regulations.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 23, 2009 -> 08:13 AM) While we're talking about the sox rotation, this could only help improve it. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws It's very interesting to note how players go about their offseasons. From Mark's own words, he seemed to rest his arm during the offseason [not throw, etc, but I'm sure worked out to keep in shape]. And maintained a strength program during the season. Mark has gone through many poor stretches where his location wasn't quite there, and wasn't as sharp. And the results were often horrible, where he'd get knocked around like a little league pitcher. Maybe last season's fade has finally convinced him to change his offseason workouts up, where he can stay stronger during the season. It's not like he's going to throw any harder. But a tired arm has led Mark to struggle with his location. I also remember that Linebrink talked about changing up his offseason routine, that he hardly ever picked up a ball. With his 2nd half fades in recent years, he better be changing things up. I find it interesting that with all the research about training available to these players on how to get in the best shape possible for their respective positions [pitchers, speed and contact guys, power hitters, etc] that more aren't putting this advice into practice. Pro players should be more selective with what training advice they listen to, as all trainers and programs aren't created equal. The problem is that there is no proven program that is better than another. What hes saying sounds good and it's always better to be in shape but there's no guarantee that it will make him a better pitcher. Professionals can't even agree on the best mechanics. There is zero research showing that stronger muscles will be more effective in pitching. The only thing that is mostly agreed upon is that pitchers injure the rotator cuff the most so a stronger more pliable rotator cuff muscles should help to prevent injuries. However, this has ever been proven. Even with my research, we just try to do what makes sense and take as much stress off the arm as possible but it is far from absolute.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 10:42 PM) You were joking, but where would any team be without individual stats? Not as good as how they interact as a team on a good team.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 08:45 PM) Totally disagree. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. They sign two players like that for the same money and are still left with holes to fill. As it stands now, I think they still have a hole. And that's after they've made those other acquisitions. And "fired on the spot"? Come on, man. You want him to tell the press he thinks his team isn't good enough? That's just absurd. Nope the only thing that matters is their individual stats.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor. With this pitching staff, it's more important to have defense in your backups. This team will ive and die by defense and pitching.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 09:09 PM) If not for 2005, would Ozzie still be our manager? Yes. He still has more division titles and winning seasons than any other manager in recent memory. The sox used to go to the playoffs essentially once a decade. Since KW and Ozzie have taken over the team they have been very successful compared to previous administrations.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 07:25 AM) I just want to know why is it everyone who says KW is absolutely not lying when he talks about finances can say he's lying everytime he talks about players? Isn't even remotely possible when he uses the every dime that comes in goes out line, he's not being straight either? There are a couple things about this rotating DH, if it is true, that are troublesome. First, the guys he apparently will use are bench players. Why in the AL would you have a bench player in the line-up everyday? Second, a lot of players struggle DHing. I know Frank Thomas did for a while. There's no guarantee even if it is for a game or two, the players won't have a difficult time adjusting. If the Sox are going to use a rotating DH, they need to acquire another every day player. Not spread it around and have reserves in the line-up all the time. It would be suicide. What is interesting is KW has gone from getting personnel advise from Konerko and Thome and switched over to Ozzie, but I'm pretty sure he's BSing. No way KW would call it an offseason in the middle of December. Because gamesmanship to hide what moves you are working on is different than deceiving people on what money he has. What would KW gain by not spending all of the money at his disposal? Would he purposely not spend money to not field the best team hecan to lose his job? It doesn't make sense to not use all of his resources. Now might JR not give all of the money available to KW? The is possible and probable. JR has responsibilities to other pepople not just the 25 man roster. These include the minor leagues, ballpark employess and the other investors. It just doesn't make sense that KW wouldn't use all of the resources available to him to field the best team he can. You may disagree with how he is doing it but that doesn't mean the resources aren't being expended.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:07 AM) Just wait until the stats guys hear this. The board will flame with how bad of a leadoff hitter he is and how bad of a move this is. Personally, I think it's an ok move. Not great but should help. I just wanted to end the day like it began and bump my earlier thought. It has been an immensely entertaining if not predictable discussion.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:20 AM) Wonder if they aren't thinking if and a big if Jones comes in good shape...Pierre in LF, Rios in CF and Jones in RF and Carlos at DH since he is a health risk. Good call. This could the group of OF's and DH for the rotation KW and Ozzie have been talking about.

QUOTE (chisox2334 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:05 AM) good move and dodgers picking it up.. now we got our leadoff Just wait until the stats guys hear this. The board will flame with how bad of a leadoff hitter he is and how bad of a move this is. Personally, I think it's an ok move. Not great but should help.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) The deals for Vizquel, Jones, and Putz are not preventing them from making any big moves. If they are unable to make a big move, it isn't because they've signed 3 guys for less than $6 million total. Well which acquisition makes this "really bad"? Rios? I think it's much too early to say that as he's really only had one bad year. And I think talented ballplayers are allowed to have a bad year here and there. Of course, it's a gamble because of his salary but that doesn't make it a "really bad" acquisition...especially when you consider KW gave up no players to do it. He's strengthened the bench and it's mid-December. Not on this board. If you had a good year, next year you will regress to your mean and suck. If you had a bad year there is no way you can play like you did in previous years because you've lost it (even if you're younger than 30) and you suck.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) Cowley is probably making light of Kenny's absolute failure of an offseason so far. Every other contender is doing big things while Kenny is loading up on complimentary players. The Sox are out of money already and there's still no RF or DH, but don't worry because Jenks, Linebrink, and Konerko are all still here sucking up salary. 1. KW spent his money for next season on Peavy and Rios at the end of last season. I don't know what big money move you were expecting but the expectioins should not have been very high. 2. I see you don't care for the contracts of Jenks, Linebrink and Konerko and think they are weighing down the possibilites of KW making a move. Most GMs seem to agree with you and nobody wants them and their contracts. If KW were to make a trade with any of them, he would need to eat so much of the contract it would n't give enough salary relief to be of any benefit. So again I'm not sure why you would have expected any big off season acquisitions when it was pretty obvious KW did most of his big acquisitions at the end of last year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:11 PM) People keep giving you a hard time, but it's really disappointing how much Rios' contract could be hampering our chances at signing other valuable pieces. I agree with you that Matsui would have been a pefect fit, and 6.5 million isn't a lot. i don't think it's the money. It's more the preference for the West Coast. I would think KW could go 6.5 mil.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) Please ignore this post. It has lots of hyperbole and frustration. LOL. Vlads? Thome? Try Mark Kotsay. And the worst Sox offense of all time. Ugh. I really wanted Matsui bad. But hey, we have Alex Rios at 10 mil a year. If he signs there,it's because of his preference for the West Coast. They want him as strictly a DH (maybe they'll bend a little) and he said he wants to play the outfield. But he also has said if not the Yankees he would like the west Coast.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 05:26 AM) KW has made the most trades involving prospects by a pretty good margin since he's been GM. And not a single one of them has become an even above average major leaguer. You're right about the Yankees (although guys like Cano, Chamberlain and Hughes have come through their system). But the Braves have been a prospect factory for over two decades. Just off the top of my head guys like Adam Wainwright, Neftali Feliz, Joey Devine and Elvis Andrus were drafted/signed then traded. That's top flight major league talent. Not to mention guys like Tommie Hanson and Jason Heyward. If I'm a GM and I'm lookin' to trade for prospects, one of the teams I'd target would be the Braves. Not the White Sox. But props to Kenny. He obviously knows when to get rid of these guys. You would just think after a while GM's would catch on. This is because KW understands that prospects, no matter how good they look in the minors are still suspects. You don't know how they'll do. So if he can get a major league player with a proven rack record for them, he will. These don't always work out either (Swisher). But you have a better chance on getting a good return on a player with major league record.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 03:18 AM) Everything I see from reports suggests Carrasco being gone, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Sure Hudson could do the job, but then you are eating up an entire arbitration year of a guy who could easily be the 5th starter of a still stellar rotation in 2011, and losing a rather vital cog of a bullpen because of $2 mill. I actually think a lot of this is due to Matsui, personally. And we won't know his whereabouts until January. My final guess is that Carlos Torres plays the role of Carrasco next year with actual potential to move to middle relief and set up (which Carrasco does not have), Williams is trying to trade him right now for really anything he can get, and that Hudson remains in the minors. it may just be that they don't think he can replicate his numbers from last year. They may not want to lose a guy with an arm like Santos and they will try him in the mop up role with Cooper working with him at the major league level.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) It's interesting how many guys we have that have something to prove next year. Putz is coming off surgery on his throwing arm. Yikes. But the Sox have medical experts and must know what they are doing. As fans we can only hope for the best but wouldn't we be expecting a lot to see him pitch before June after surgery?? He's another very tall pitcher. Has he had control problems? GO SOX! From my understanding he should be ready to throw by spring training if not sooner.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) His prognosis when he had the surgery was something like 8-12 weeks (see post earlier in this thread). If he's not ready to pitch right now then this signing shouldn't have been made. This is the type of surgery where you can predict a good outcome. The clean up of the osteophytes and other loose bodies is relatively safe as surgeries go. My only concern is getting the range of motion back to normal depending on how long the oseopytes have been impeding his motion. However, Herm and his staff should have no trouble staying on top of it and getting him back. By all accounts he isn't a lazy guy who wouldn't do the work.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) Matsui WANTS to play the outfield and will go to a team that gives him that chance (if one does). I saw where Oakland could be a sleeper for him. We know how Beane values defense. Oakland would let him play shortstop if he agreed to what they could pay him.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) The Tribune is reporting that he'll be heatlhy by spring training. Still, shoulder injuries can really impact your career. They effect your swing and can easily be re-injured. Hopefully he's done all of the necessary strength and conditioning training. Ptac, what type of concerns would there be for re-injury and is this a type of injury that someone can fully recover from (baseball wise) or will it always hinder him to an extent? From what I've read and people I've talked to, both surgeries were basically clean ups with a little tightening. Nothing really major. He should fully recover. And it shouldn't really alter his swing. He didn't have the structural damage such as TCQ and others.

QUOTE (Sec101Row1 @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 06:47 PM) Mets statement last season: Putz has been shut down indefinitely and will not return this year after an MRI on Tuesday found that he has some new fraying and a slightly torn ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow. Putz had surgery on the elbow in June to remove a bone spur and fragments of bone and was slated to make his first rehab appearance Tuesday for Class-A Brooklyn. But he was scratched from that appearance after complaining of soreness in his right forearm, the team said in a statement. Not uncommon to have forearm tightness after this type of surgery. When the UCL loosens the medial forearm muscles need to work a little more to help stabilize the elbow. As the UCL heals and tightens the forearm won't be an issue.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 01:50 PM) Good post. That's what I was saying. There's nothing wrong with throwing out ideas in the middle of winter. None of us really know what Kenny is thinking about doing... he'll proabably pull off some deal that none of us have even thought of and will have all of us going WTF WAS THAT??? Maybe all of this is a smokescreen to divert the media away from another deal. The media is focused on Halladay so talk to Toronto about it while you seal another deal else where. that does sound like KW.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 8, 2009 -> 01:26 PM) Crawford for Quentin on the surface would be the worst move Kenny has ever made. The only way the Sox should consider moving Carlos is if they think he's going to be hurt for the rest of his career, and if that's the case, please deal him for somebody cheap with superstar potential who will be expected to be part of our future for the next 4-6 years, not some fast guy who is almost certainly going to be asking for $15M+ per next offseason. And if you can't get that, at least go with the best package of prospects you can find. Quentin for Crawford is just so dumb on so many levels. I mean, we can't even afford that contract for one. when you factor in the injury history of TCQ it's not as lopsided. The D'backs didn't trade him because they didn't think he had talent. They looked at his injury history and though he may be the type of player who is so intense that he might be an injury waiting to happen. So, far they might be right. So, I agree with the part about the Sox concern for injuries and might deal him for a good player like you suggest

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 6, 2009 -> 09:23 PM) http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=At_f...o&type=lgns You wonder how many of those players actually need the medicine. The use of TUEs is common even at the olympic level. Eventually, as more TUEs are granted, there will be a pattern if certain physicians abuse the right and they'll get caught. Usually physicians that have that low of medical ethics get caught with other things as well. But it will take time to weed them out.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 5, 2009 -> 01:04 PM) Only my own guess here, but if JD and JT are planning on going to Indy for the Winter Meetings they had better hurry as they are on the wrong side of Illinois. Maybe it's that cheap liquor in Canton? I believe Thome owns a hunting ranch in the area and both are avid hunters. They could have shot a couple of deer then go to the meetings.