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QUOTE (chunk23 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 01:59 PM) It's really been quite the opposite. Both Haren and Oswalt have been traded for pretty terrible packages. Part of this resean is that neither pitcher was pitching really well and the commitment for another year with big money. Haren was having a poor year for the D-backs in the NL and still had time on the contract. So he may not have helped down the stretch. Oswalt was having a pretty good year but I think more GMs a hesitant to have pitchers move from the NL to AL and contribute right away. He also has another year on his deal.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 10:57 AM) didn't he shoot JFK?

It was talked about on the radio and is on MLB Trade rumors

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 10:20 AM) Abreu would come cheap since he does have the contract obligation. I think he makes around $10 million next year. I wouldn't mind if we got Abreu, he does make this team better. Hell, anyone makes this team better because of Kotsay. And I didn't realize that the Angels are now in third place and at .500... Talk about a big swing since the Haren deal. I agree, this would be good move.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 09:21 PM) You wouldnt even last that long. You know what? Im okay being a team struggling to get out of the AL Central, Im okay with not being able to trade for top players like Cabrera, Fielder, etc. Im okay that I cant question the methods of this franchise because, well, it just feels wrong to question someone who is better than the crap we used to have, even if they do have major flaws. Im okay with having big resources being wasted on crap players. Im okay giving this team a pass on its downfalls because they won a f***ing WS, and because they did I wont ever question their decisions again, even if I see them being able to easily improve an area that would help win another one. You can always question it, good fans always should. I just disagree with your premise that they are doing a good job. However, KW and Ozzie have gotten good results with the resources allotted to them over the past 10 years. We all know the KW spent most of the resources on pitching and the offense was going to suffer. You can micromanage every move or look at the big picture. You can prefer to focus on the minors or the major league team, KW doesn't have the resources to really improve both. No one has said you can't question it, I just disagree.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 05:03 PM) Your organization should be up for contraction if you can't find a suitable replacement for Mark Teahen. Whether it be by veterans or prospects.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 04:43 PM) Yeah, but Mauer has underachieved (by his standards) most of the year. He's really heating up of late. If he goes 2009 the rest of the way it could be curtains. Everyone has down years. Let's hope this is his and he stays there without Morneau's protection.

QUOTE (J.Reedfan8 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 04:59 PM) Is that potential career ending? That is his second one. It depends on the cause of the flexor tendon injury. If it is isolated to the tendon and is only a grade 1 or 2, it will heal without difficulties. If the tendons were strained due to laxity in the elbow ligaments it's a ligament replacement surgery.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 04:47 PM) Now I have been drinking. It's 2010, correct? It's not 1994 and we have Robin Ventura, right? You can't be serious. I don't believe Robin Ventura was playing for the Sox this year. Although that injury he sustained in spring training the one year was horrific. I'm just pointing out that players can be replaced with veterans not highly-touted unproven prospects.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 04:23 PM) Or to alleviate injuries throughout the year. Shane Victorino, an all-star last year, goes on the DL. What do the Phillies do? Call up a consensus top 10 prospect, 5 tool talent in Dominic Brown to step in. I'd hate to see what our alternative would be say Rios were to go down. That's a terrifying thought. Or how the Whits Sox team performance dropped when they lost their starting 3B.........oh wait a veteran stepped in and performed well right away. Prospects are suspects until they've proven they can play at the MLB level.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 01:58 PM) It's only a good plan if you have capable offensive players, which we really don't have in Kotsay and Jones. That wasn't the question. The question was why was Rios at DH. and Jones in CF. And I agree with Balta, Jones has done a good job. Another question: could the resting of Konerko, Rios and TCQ allow them to be more fresh and have a better overall season as opposed to the lineup with someone like Thome full time at DH? If nothing else to probably has allowed TCQ to play more without lower extremity injuries. There is no way to know for sure just a question that popped into my ADHD mind.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:50 PM) There is a balance between talent, luck, and management of the team. I just believe that an abundance of talent will help the downfalls of being unlucky or not having the greatest manager more than luck or a great manager has on a bad team. Ill leave it at that. Everything you said is true. The abundance of talent is the easiest to control of the group there is no denying that.

QUOTE (kane0730 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:19 PM) Since there isn't much Dunn news today, let's get hypothetical. What would your line-up (not Ozzie's) be with Dunn? *assuming no position player is traded Mine: Pierre Ramirez Rios Konerko Dunn Quentin AJ Beckham Omar Ozzie would put Dunn between Rios and Konerko to break up the righties.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:16 PM) How do you build a team though? You cant build a team around luck, you build it around talent. You want the best team in the league, it doesnt always end up that the most talented wins teh division, but it gives you a damn good chance. And lets say if Konerko went down this year, but we had a stellar farm system, and we were right in it in terms of competing still. We could use that system to replace Konerko. It gives you so much flexibility and opportunities to have a stellar farm system, and yet it doesnt even cost a crippling amount. An extra 3-5 million a year in the draft would do wonders for us. All of the points are valid but the most talented team has a chance to win but usually it's how the team performs the best. I hate to use the quote but it's the organization that wins not the individual player. If the parts fit together well they have a good chance to beat the more talented team. That's why the GM and manager are often as important as the players. The players are people their performance may depend on how they are handled by the manager and to a lesser extent GM over a long and grinding season. You can't judge a franchise just on the talent in the system or MLB level. It needs to be judged by performance. Did they win or not.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:13 PM) People jumped to conclusions because of the thread title, and there were some legit concerns stating if the team fell out due to not having a big bat because Ozzie wanted flexibility and KW didnt make a move because he let Ozzie control him, but no, for the most part this thread has been about the Sox improving overall. Some posters have continually not understood that since the beginning of the thread because they got caught up with the title too much and not the content. And sorry if I pissed anyone off, it became very frustrating having to retype what I was saying every other page because people werent actually reading it. It's the same point. The Sox are one of the best run frachises in baseball and their teams have performed well since they took over.

QUOTE (Cali @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 11:48 AM) I would love to get Joba for Bobby...or just Joba in general somehow. Getting him out of NYC would do wonders for him I think. Get Coop to do his "fix 'em" and with a little luck you'd have a pretty dominant closer in a few years. But this season: Putz Thornton Chamberlain Santos Threets Linebrink Pena I don't know, the knock on him in Nebraska was that he was too much of a head case to take a chance on.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:09 PM) I just said that an occasional outlier due to injury is acceptable, but a team with our resources in our division should have top 2 talent year in and year out. Again talent is a relative term. I think the record is the most important. I think there were a few years where the Sox were more talented than the Twins and they won the division. The talent is one thing, winning is another and they don't always correlate.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:06 PM) IM NOT CALLING FOR FIRINGS!! Ive never said that!!!!! Im calling for improvement, change in parts of the organization that have sucked for years! I thought the discussion started with how well (or not) KW and Ozzie were doing. The only way to improve in this area would be to change one of them. My apologies if this wasn't the discussion you were having.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:04 PM) If we were in the AL East I would say its ridiculous, but no, were in the Central against a well run organization in the Twins, two s***s orgs in the Royals and Indians, and a pretty good franchise in the Tigers. With the resources we have we should be at the top 2 every year, with an occasional outlier for injuries and such (thats baseball). But our talent should be as high if not higher than anyone else in the league. If not, thats a major screwup with the resources by the GM. Has anyone in any division been in the top two every year for the past five years? I'm not sure that is realistic given the incidence of injury in this sport.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:55 PM) Well, for us young whippersnappers I am sorry for wanting more out of the franchise that I grew up with. Im sorry that I cant blindly see and allow a blatant hole in the franchise and just say "Im okay with it." Im sorry taht I see this franchise in a great opportunity to be a top 7 or 8 team year in and year out with the resources given to it and that it is struggling to be there year in and year out. I know not every season is going to go your way, but we should be top 2 in the central every single year with the resources we have. I don't think your over exaggeration is the point. The point is that the management combo is doing a very good job with what they have and they have been one of the best in baseball. The call for their firings is a little over the top giving thier relative success.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:48 PM) Oh cmon, the Phillies have been a better franchise, they are identical in playoff appearances, they have made the WS twice, and they have a much better farm system and it can be argued that they have a better MLB roster. i really don't care who has the better minor league system the only thing that matters is winning at the major league level. One could translate to the other but winning is all that matters. The World Series wins puts them up there of course but again if you look at how awful they were before hand their system was bound to be good with all those years of higher picks.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) Exactly. I don't care where we stack up in relationship to the rest of baseball, I care where we stack up in relationship to the Twins. Because that's our competition every year. I still would let them have more division tiles without a World Series title. If we are close to them every year but have more World Series trophies, I'll live with that. The ultimate goal is the World Series and as long as we are in the hunt and win a few division titles in the meantime, it works for me. I'm not sure I could handle a run like the Braves had in the 90's (before which they are awful for a decade) where they won the division title every year but couldn't win the World Series. It's just a personal preference but I'll take the title.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:35 PM) Depending on how you look at wins and titles, the Marlins have been successful, Angels have been good, Phillies have been excellent. The Phillies are a great example. They spend alot at the MLB level, but not Boston/NY territory and they invest alot in the draft. Guess what, when they want to trade for Cliff Lee and/or Halladay they can do it, and they have homegrown players like Victorino making a huge difference and they still have MiLB depth to make a trade if they want to. They arent perfect, but they have a damn fine franchise. The Marlins have been ok the last 10 years but not at the Sox level, they've had too many ups and downs. The Phillies have been coming on strong the last few years but weren't very good and probably awful before that. I still think the management combo we have is among the best certainly in the top 5.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:33 PM) Well see this is where the argument gets interesting. To me, the Twins have been a more succesful team than us in KW's time since they've won the division five times and we've won it twice (no wild cards for either side, only AL Central wild card in that time was Detroit in '06). Obviously we've got the trump card of the World Series in '05, but I'm not sure the fact that we found the right playoff combination in '05 (which I think doing is more luck than skill, considering it's teams that got there being great for 162 trying to be better in a best of 5 or 7) overcomes the Twins resume overall, even though it is a trump card. The is a valid way to look at it. Either way the two franchises are close. I still think they are in the in the upper echelon as far as management goes.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:27 PM) I will not argue the point that KW and Oz are the best GM/manager combo the Sox have had in the past 4 decades or so. But just because we have a long previous history of ineptitude at those spots doesn't mean we should give the current guys a pass because they aren't terrible as well. I think if you look around the league they are a fairly successful combination as well. Outside of the Yankees and Boston has there been another combo with more wins or titles?