whitesoxfan101

Blow it up, dump the veterans, rebuild. My only hope with this is also my only fear and here's what I mean. My hope is the division is bad and thus we have a shot, my fear is the division is bad and KW will not trade off some of our veteran parts for return items even though we're bad.

I'm at step 5, and for the second time in three years, i'm pronouncing the White Sox dead in the mid to late May range on the calendar. To be fair, I also thought we were done after the series at the Metrodome late last September and turned out to be wrong, however my assesment was right in 2007 and I expect it to be right in 2009 again. 2009 and 2007 are just frightningly similar looking. The ONLY hope I have for 2009 is the division we're in, but that's about it. Then again, even that's also my fear since KW might have false hope due to the division we're in and not sell off the veterans for return items.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2009 -> 11:28 AM) I wouldn't write anything in stone just yet...there's going to be some major reorganizing in the NBA soon driven by this economic collapse that has hit the NBA particularly hard. I really don't know where all the trouble spots are, we know some of them (Sacramento, Memphis, etc), but there are probably a bunch of others that are in bad shape that are going to be moving people for less than we think they should take. For all we know, Cleveland might be in that boat. On top of that, there's shaping up to be another major lockout to start the 2011 season. Throw in the draft lottery's lottery-ness, and the fact that some of those teams out west (Dallas, San Antone) are getting old, and this league is going to be in a lot of flux these next 2 years. I know what you are saying. I just look at the summer of 2010, and if LeBron stays in Cleveland, they are still THE dominant team out east. The only way that could change is if somebody signs a couple of 2010 guys (such as New York getting Bosh AND Wade, or something like that), but I don't see that happening. Your point about the NBA being hit especially hard by the economic collapse does hold water though. The entire face of the Western Conference the last couple of years and the next few more was changed by an entirely finance driven trade (Gasol to LA), so more moves like that are possible and thus I shouldn't be crowning Cleveland just yet for the future. Cleveland I can't imagine is a team that would be in the financial trouble boat though, they sell out every game and have huge TV ratings, plus make incredible revenue and sell a ton of apparel due to James. I hope the major lockout doesn't happen, I remember the 1998-1999 one and that sucked big time.

I'd have his 5th, 6th, and 7th ranked teams ahead of the Bears without question. However, I do think the Bears are the favorite in the NFC North, although to be honest I think the Packers would be my 2nd place prediction. To me, Minnesota looks like they are going to finish 3rd right now, and thus I completely understand why they'd want Brett Favre. He's worth the risk considering how much they need a good QB.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2009 -> 11:19 AM) Well, Duh. The C's series proved that. They'd probably have won it in 5 with solid defensive schemes. The fact that the Bulls were THAT close to the Eastern Conference Finals is a scary statement about the East. LeBron James might be playing in the next 3 to 5 NBA Finals unless something drastic happens, which might be enough to convince him to stay in Cleveland.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 12, 2009 -> 09:35 PM) Friggin Celtics. Does this mean the Bulls could have beaten Orlando too? Of course they could have beat Orlando. I said before the playoffs the Bulls would be better off playing the Magic and I stand by it, even though the Bulls gave a much better series to Boston than I anticipated (and should have won the series). Realistically, the Bulls would have made the Eastern Conference Finals this season if they had a real coach in my opinion, although that's MUCH more a statement as to how bad the East it is how good/improved the Bulls are. The Magic/Celtics series isn't particulary relevant though, as the winner simply earns the right to be defeated in dominant fashion by Cleveland in either 4 or 5 games. As for Stan Van Gundy and Dwight Howard, Dwight is right that the Magic were being stupid and trying to dribble the air out of the ball last night, but in SVG's defense, he's not the first coach to fall into that trap and he won't be the last. In fact, that trap is the single biggest reason you see so many 4th quarter leads blown in basketball, teams get too worried about the clock and stop playing their game. If Stan is fired, I am with whoever said the Bulls should take a look, he's 10 times the coach VDN will ever be. I think Stan will be fired if Orlando loses this series after those comments from their best player, but I doubt the Bulls would look at him though unfortunately.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 12, 2009 -> 10:41 AM) Nucks fans are completely blaming the loss on the refs. Canadians arent always as nice as they appear. People who blame the refs are stupid in general anyways, but anybody who blames the refs in THAT series is silly. The Hawks were simply the better team, and if anything, the refs seemed to favor the Canucks a bit at times (although I didn't have any problem with the refs throughout this series, thought it was pretty fairly called for the most part). You can't blame the refs for your goalie giving up 7 goals in a do or die game either. Anyways, I am just stunned at how far and how fast the Blackhawks franchise has risen from the dead, and I couldn't be happier. Hopefully they aren't done yet. QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 12, 2009 -> 12:42 AM) It's kind of a unique situation. I was a pretty huge Blackhawks fan up until the strike. I used to watch them in the Amonte/Nylander/Zhamnov/Thibault/Daze days and it was rough. Then I got older and the Hawks sucked, they weren't on TV, and the NHL was losing the greats that lured me in (Patrick Roy, Raymond Bourque) and my interest waned. Since the day the Hawks drafted Kane, my interest has gone up and up, and now being able to watch them on TV every game really makes it easier to be a fan again. There is a lot to be excited about. Pretty much the same story here. I got into the Hawks at a very young age and was a pretty big fan all the way through the days where the 2002 team made it to the playoffs and a bit beyond that. But after that team, things got really, really bad and the lockout happened and I got into my later days of high school and beyond and I kind of almost forgot about them for a few years. I'm glad they have reminded me why I was such a big fan growing up.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:12 AM) It would shock me, absolutely shock me, if all 3 of them were clean. I have no inside knowledge about any of them though, but it would seem unbelievable that everyone else was doing it, but 3 of our favorite players from the generation weren't. Agreed.

Jordan, but it's closer than MJ homers think.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:08 AM) Rule of thumb: if a player comes up in baseball looking like a toothpick, and 10 years later, they look like a professional wrestler.....they're probably using PEDs. Manny, Sammy, and many others. They were showing highlights of Andruw Jones from his rookie year the other day on MLB Network, and he must have weighed 165 pounds. Well if that rule of thumb is so easy, do you think Frank, Thome, or Griffey used?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:03 AM) I'm gonna go with... no. He's refused to play at times, is lazy on defense and running the bases... his work ethic on the field and about playing on the field is as bad as I have seen. I can't comment on what time he gets to the park, I have no way of knowing that. I'm saying, if I were a Sawx fan, I'd be pissed at his lazy ass out there on the field. I pay your ridiculous salary, jackass, so at least make it look like you appreciate the job you wouldn't have it it weren't for me. He was the best player on two Red Sox teams who won World Championships for a franchise who hadn't previously won one since 1918. He worked PLENTY hard enough for that fanbase, and if they didn't like him "not looking like he appreciated his job", it's their own damn fault.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:02 AM) The thing to remember about people's work ethics is that the steroids help with that. They enable you to work harder and longer in the weight room without having to give your body as much time to recover. We hear about b*tch t*ts's work ethic all the time, all the hours he put in at the gym, etc., ditto tetrahydrogestrinone's work ethic, always building up at the gym...they're able to do that in the first place because of the steroids, it's not just some side thing they're oding. Oh I know, I'm just saying the premise that Manny doesn't work hard is bull s***. I can't speak for how he has the strength/energy to work that hard though, and it now appears he had some help.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2009 -> 08:01 AM) The NFL will take it at some point. Just watch. Either people will start dying or someone ridiculously big (like a Brady/Manning/Favre) will get caught and they'll just have their pants down. Or someone will write a Canseco style book, whatever. The bolded is what is going to start happening eventually IMO, similar to wrestling (although I don't think it's THAT bad in the NFL).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:56 AM) The docor excuse was authored by Scott Boras. Read Manny's apology and then listen to Manny speak and tell me they are from the same person. Its spin city. Why wouldn't Manny appeal which is his right? He has every reason to cheat. A big year can make him a ton of money as he is on a 1 year contract with an option. He also has been known not to have the greatest work ethic in the world. PED's provide a shortcut. I can't argue with most of this, but saying he isn't known to have the greatest work ethic in the world is simply false. He's notorious for being one of the first guys to the ballpark and spending hours in the batting cage. He is a lazy defensive player and baserunner at times, but his work ethic isn't something that can be questioned. That doesn't mean s*** though, since Roger Clemens is known for his work ethic too and he was also on the stuff.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:55 AM) Actually, we really haven't heard it like this in baseball. Most of the other high-profile players have been proven to have been using steroids. Not something their doctor provided that is now banned because MLB went and banned everything carried in the GNC as an overreaction to the events of the past 5-10 years. Why is it that this happens in the NFL and no one blinks an eye? So now Manny is no longer the best hitter of his generation? I'm not buying it. I don't think MLB overreacted to ban everything after the hit the steroid era gave them (and continues to give them). And the reason this happens in the NFL and nobody blinks an eye is NOBODY cares about records in football, it doesn't have nearly the tradition of baseball, and football is entirely based on giant freaks smashing into each other. Totally different game, although I agree cheating is still cheating no matter what and it's still very bad.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:52 AM) Didn't Canseco and Thomas play together on the Sox? If so, I think Canseco would have said something. As for Manny...not surprised at all which is a sad state for a baseball fan to be in. I wish somebody would flat out ask Canseco about Junior and Frank. If he came out and said those two weren't using, it would make me feel a lot better, as crazy as that sounds (although it's not crazy anymore, he hasn't missed yet on what guys he said used.)

QUOTE (rangercal @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:49 AM) Would you give the same answer for Alexei Ramirez? There isn't a single player in baseball I assume is for sure clean. I think there are guys who are clean, but to assume anybody is definitely clean anymore is simply burying your head in the sand, and now I don't think anybody using would surprise me. Manny is the last guy i'm going to let get me with the element of surprise.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:47 AM) I think we are all jumping the gun a bit here...there are definitely varying degrees of PED abuse, in my mind. There is quite a difference between a guy just flat-out roiding and a guy using some silly banned supplement that is questionable in the effects it even has. I'm not going to throw out the player Manny has been for the last 15 years because of this quite yet. We're DEFINITELY jumping the gun, I admit that and won't argue it. But it's baseball own fault that everybody jumps the gun like this now. They ignored this problem for a solid decade and a half to two decades, and now they have this monster in place where people are so angry that even the whiff of a failed test means you'll never make the Hall of Fame.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:46 AM) As strange as this may sound, I actually might buy into the doctor excuse. The reason is because Manny has no reason to cheat at this point. He has a $45M contract, he is almost done, he is a sure fire HoF'er, he has a ring, he is already regarded as one of the best right handed hitters of the generation...so whats the point? I can't believe Manny actually cares enough about his performance and how he's perceived to try and get an edge. Especially since up until now he has been "clean". I just feel if he was juicing, he would have been caught before, or at the very least would have stopped. Why wasnt he caught 2 years ago? Or last year? Why all of a sudden just right now? It just doesnt make sense to me, which is why I will wait to hear his official excuse in detail. None of the really good players using steroids makes sense, it's just their egos getting out of control. Manny is the first player to use them that surprises me honestly, and at this point it's only a mild surprise.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:40 AM) The NL West isn't as bad as it was a year ago. The Dodgers will weather the storm for the 50 games without him and still win that division. And since the suspension is earlier in the year, Manny will be back and in rhythm by October, so I honestly don't think this will affect the Dodgers a great deal, other than Manny is now public enemy #1 outside of Dodger Stadium.

QUOTE (rangercal @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:35 AM) Frank Thomas > ALL If we could find a way to know for sure he didn't use, I agree.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:30 AM) Thing about Frank and Griffey is that they've been around so long that you would think something would've came out long before now if they had been doing something. There's hasn't even been an inkling of suspected usage by either of them. With that said, I agree that it's foolish to say any player (even my favorite player of all-time) is above any and all suspicion. I agree that I don't THINK Frank or Griffey used them, but nobody is to be trusted anymore. As for Thome, I thought he was juicing in his younger days so I'd be a hypocrite to say he's clean now that he's on the Sox and I see he's a nice guy. Andy Pettitte seems like a great guy too and he was on the stuff.

QUOTE (Nunnigan @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:25 AM) Frank is now the clear cut best hitter in the 90's (along with JR.), even if there wasn't any question about him being the best... Whose to say he wasn't on steroids too? Everything we saw seems to be a farce anyways, nothing would surprise me anymore.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 7, 2009 -> 07:23 AM) I believe that Manny has been screwed over by his doctor. I believe he was cheating just like every other player in baseball. It's almost hard to even call it cheating anymore since everybody was on it, sad.

What a heartbreaker, I was a big Manny fan and thought he was clean. What's clear now is that PED users WEREN'T gaining a competitive edge, because EVERYBODY was on the stuff. It's simply being ignorant to assume anybody was clean, even Thome, Frank, and Junior. They are all guility until proven innocent.