whitesoxfan101

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) I'm officially for the idea of acquiring T. Hunter this offseason. Huge contract or not, all he does is help his team win. That contract would kill us the last 2 or 3 years of it, but our OF situation is so bad that we might have to bite the bullet with a bad contract if we want an at least MLB quality group.

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) Why Logan instead of Thornton? 7-6 is still manageable. Because Ozzie got pansted not thinking they'd bring in Lee as a pinch hitter, and thus we were stuck with the LOOGY kid Logan out there instead of Thornton, who at least has a pretty good shot against D Lee.

QUOTE(kramer99 @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:23 PM) i thought u said we should look to the "retard past" for examples...your words not mine. That's actually a fair point, which is why it's fair and logical to realistically leave the teams as is until July (maybe I should have titled the thread "blow the whole f***ing thing up in July"). But this has all the makings of a lineup that will do what our staff did last year. There is no sign that 7 guys will suddenly emerge to have career years hitting and that 2 pitchers will be untouchable for months for us like the Twins got last year. None at all.

QUOTE(kramer99 @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:16 PM) Give them 2-4 more weeks...thats all im saying Well nothing is going to happen in terms of moves until at least July anyways, so they will get their time. And if everybody suddenly wakes up, I'll admit I'm wrong. I just highly doubt it, I mean they can't keep being THIS bad, but they aren't going to recover to career averages. This is like last years starters in terms of our lineup and everybody seeming to have a below average year at the same time. The difference is our everyday players are a lot older, and we have no everyday player help in the minors. And even if we do recover, Cleveland and Detroit are so much better than us that we aren't making it to October anyways.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:19 PM) You realize that Konerko did this before. 2003 What about the other 6 or 7 guys? Konerko's recovery from 2003 is a rarity in the history of baseball by anybody, that's like using Roger Clemens as an example that you can pitch into your mid 40's.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:21 PM) I'll give you the same advice for tonight that Ozzie gave his troops after his first game with the team: "Go get drunk and forget about it". You know I dislike this current team as much as you do, but you're going to give yourself an ulcer if after every game we lose, you have to make a thread like this. It sucks to lose....so just do what I do and root for every Cubs player to suffer a season-ending injury. Hey I only did it the last 2 games, our 3rd to last loss (the Yankee joke the other night), my thread was titled "oh well" and my attitude was the same. The last 2 days have just been the last seasoning to a boiling pot IMO.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:12 PM) KW and Ozzie are too proud and arrogant to blow up the team already. They're going to use the injury angle if things get real bad. They'll want to see how we play with Pods and Thome back in the lineup before making any big decisions. I wouldn't be so excited though about seeing us trade some veterans...I'm sure we'll just try to get a AAAA prospect that looked good in the Arizona Fall League. If we trade these guys for AAAA prospects (or keeps everybody when we are still hovering around .500 on July 27th), that is when Kenny is on the blow it up list too. But we have to trade these guys, and Kenny can't be fired right now, so we have to let him try and do it. And Pods isn't coming back until after the deadline probably anyways, and Thome can't play defense or pitch out of the pen.

The funny thing to me is everybody saying we will start hitting. Well first of all, we have the worst hitting coach in the game and a manager that gives away free outs left and right bunting, even in tie games in the 7th inning when a gale wind is blowing out. Second of all, all of our starting pitchers had great track records going into last year, I kept hearing "well when they recover with this offense, we'll be unstoppable!" It never happened. This looks exactly like last year, only in complete reverse. Only difference is we didn't get off to a great start this time, the 2 teams we are fighting with this year might be better than the 2 from 2006, and now even our bullpen is starting to show signs of being pathetic. And I won't even address the incredible, hard to believe that he's still being defended Ozzie stuff again.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ May 19, 2007 -> 12:51 PM) the mention of recruiting sites was more of a general reference than directly to you, but it was probably phrased poorly. i'm aware that you speak with certain people regarding certain issues. that said, not every source or reputed source is 100 percent correct all of the time. you've been dead on on a few issues and dead off on a few, and i'd say the exact same thing about myself. in terms of making a "choice" to not select tucker, the choice was more nuanced than just portraying it as weber sitting around like a spurned schoolgirl waiting for rose to call. at least that's the way it's been presented to me by people who's information i respect. Yeah I'm aware that the Tucker thing wasn't THAT easy since we still thought we had Gordon, but you can't just turn down a 5 star player willing to verbal (which he was after MSU got all their guys). I'd have taken the risk of telling Rose we are out of room and taking Tucker presonally, and I said that at the time. It's just my opinion that i'm almost positive that senario presented itself to Bruce. Now to be fair, I know it's not that easy, but when you are not recruiting well, you take any stud you can get.

Enjoy the 2 team race, Tiger and Indian fans. Should be a great one between 2 really good teams.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:07 PM) Think of it this way....2005 was our one good chance to win the whole f***ing thing, and we did. Be forever grateful of this, because a lot of teams don't capitalize when it's "their season". The window with the core group of Buehrle, Garland, PK, and Crede looks to be done. I'm actually intrigued to see who will be our team leaders in say 2009. My favorite thing to watch the rest of the season will be to see Danks pitch. This doesn't answer how do we fix this though, and I am forever grateful for 2005. However I know we aren't going to win anything again with this core, so we should start trading it for what value it has left to try and rebuild, and maybe the new core can help. Keeping people to avoid attendance and interest falling is utter nonsense, if we start losing (which we will, if we firesale or don't firesale, either way), attedance is going down. At least if we get some young parts, we have hope.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:05 PM) Losing also kills attendance The attendance will die off within the next 3 weeks at the rate we are going on the field anyways. QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:05 PM) And people are relying on our minor league coaches developing the players into being ready to contribute at the MLB level. Blow the whole f***ing thing up isn't just Ozzie and players, it goes deeper than that. Kenny and his cronies are next on the hit list if things don't happen within the next few months.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) A firesale hurts this team for a lot longer than you guys think. Sure it gives you some talent, that may or may not help you. But a fire sale will kill attendance. A fire sale + cubs doing well will bury it. It will taper off later this year. If we are fielding a rebuilding team next year, they will see less renewals on the ticket plans. And without that revenue, the salary of our team will drop. Its a vicious circle. Hopefully they can turn this around. So what do we do, keep the veterans we have for a ton of money and continue to be mediocre? If you want to win another World Series, we have to sell off parts, because we can't tweak what we have and win anything.

QUOTE(kramer99 @ May 19, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) lets just give up now... i mean, no team could be doing so terrible at this point in the season and make the playoffs right...especially in such a great division!!! Twins Record on May 19, 2006: Minnesota 18 24 .429 9.5 Who won the division last year again? your right...doesnt matter.... lets just give up now Do you except us to pull Johan Santana and 7 players having career years at the dish at the same time, along with a lights out bullpen and 2nd half swoon from the 2 teams ahead of us? I love when people go to the retard past examples though, "OMG THE CUBS CAN WIN, HOUSTON CAME BACK FROM 10 BACK IN 2004!!!!11111111"

I'll again clarify that we can't realistically blow this whole thing up until July. What i'm saying is nothing is going to change between now and the last 2 weeks of July, thus if the whole thing isn't blown up from Ozzie to most of the veterans, than I will begin to question Kenny's job status as well. This is not working, something has to change.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) The biggest thing is the sox failed to win a series after winning their last 4 even after playing bad ball. But blow the whole team up?! Give me a break Yeah, and all that has lead us to the gaudy record of 8-6 in our last 14, and tomorrow's pitching matchup screams 8-7. Means nothing.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:57 PM) Of course not, but you have to wait closer to the deadline. If we trade them now, our attendance will be cut in half for next year. Here's the scary part....this team doesn't have just a few holes to fill for the next two years. There's only 5 or 6 guys on the entire roster right now who we can be sure will be here for 2009. Our window is all but closed for being a WS contender. It will be hard to get too upset if we have to rebuild for a few years, as we've been a consistent over .500 team for a long stretch. Well realistically, of course we do. And I won't be mad for that. But when we are still around .500 and out of it in late July, we better sell off a ton of parts or else I'm going ape s***. Today just confirmed the should be firesale is now unavoidable.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:56 PM) its tough..i agree he hasnt been that great a manager, but i like ozzie a lot. i think thats how a lot of people feel, we agree hes not that good of a manager, but we all like him I can't argue with that either, but he's not a good manager is the only thing that matters, whether or not we like him is not relevant at all.

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:52 PM) I'm just dreading monday when all the flub fans run their mouth non-stop. Ehh 1908 always gets them quiet. This isn't about that, my anger is about 4/5 the games and 1/5 the opponent the last 2 days.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) I agree they won't make the playoffs....but there's nothing to gain by trading away our veterans right now. Flat out, our minor league development sucks. We can't call up anyone that doesn't look like a Little League hitter. I don't want to see Jerry Owens and Ryan Sweeney battle the rest of the year to see who can ground out more. Just be like me with Ozzie....hope he says something stupid. You just explained why we need the firesale. Maybe if we trade some of these overpaid, crappy veterans we can actually have some young talent, it's not like we are going anywhere this way. And firing Ozzie ends all problems with him. QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:54 PM) if were not making the playoffs, theres no point in keeping dye, crede, uribe, gooch. Beat me to it.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:52 PM) Aardsma has been our best reliever, and righties were hitting .184 against him. He had to face three straight righties. Give Ozzie a f***ing break. Watching Mac against the Royals, even during his good days, should be enough of a lesson as to why you don't put guys in big spots against ex teams.

*bump* This wasn't quite as bad as yesterday, but it was still atrocious.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:50 PM) Ironic coming from me, but show a little patience. No changes will be made until Thome returns and we see him play for a month or so. If things are real bad, the trade deadline will be looming, and then you'll see changes. This team has 0 shot at making the playoffs, and is full of dead weight. Waiting has no use, at all. We are nowhere near good enough to finish higher than 3rd this year. QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ May 19, 2007 -> 05:51 PM) i dont think we should have a firesale, trade everyone with big contracts. keep jenks, thornton, pk,aj, buehrle, danks. the rest, i dont care And fire Ozzie. Add that and that is what i'm basically saying, just in not as calm terms.

This post was thought out too btw. I purposely waited half an hour to make it so my mind wouldn't be so cluttered with over reacting. I kept the post to the facts.

Everybody. Manager, players hitting .200, bullpen choking when they finally get runs, all of them. Kenny and a few young guys are the only safe ones, and even that is temporary. We aren't winning anything this year and there is no use keeping all the dead weight on this team.