whitesoxfan101

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY???????????????

Well Liriano is hurt again, so we could win 2 of 3 up there now. Still think it's Tigers or bust though.

I hope they are happy they might have ruined the kid by rushing him back way too quickly. They still have Johan, but now we have a shot to win 2 of 3 up there at least. Hopefully he doesn't turn into another Prior.

QUOTE(whitesox1976 @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 08:37 AM) Being 2 1/2 behind the Twins and 4 behind the Tigers, we're going to need help to make the playoffs now. This has sure been a disappointing season. True. The loss column (3 behind the Twins, 4 the Tigers) is what matters though. We have to sweep the Tigers, or get within 3 of them before we play them and win 2 of 3, if we want a shot though. I think our chances of beating out the Twins are gone, especially if Liriano is ok.

Last nights events put us 3 out in the loss column on Minny with 17 to go. We still also have to play up there for 3, with Liriano and Johan pitching 2 games. So in other words, we'll go 1-2 up there (and that's being optimistic), so that's 4 out in the loss column with 14 other games left. If we plan on forcing a playoff with them after that, we gotta go 11-3 in our other 14 games and have them split, going 7-7. Is this going to happen? Hell no it's not. So in other words, our last chance is Detroit. We are 4 out in the loss column on them, and we get them at home for 3 next week, while avoiding Kenny Rogers. Our playoff hopes come down to at least winning (but more than likely having to sweep) those guys. Pretty sad what it's come to, what a pathetic waste this team is.

QUOTE(Wealz @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 11:48 PM) Guillen's worth is measured by the fact that there isn't a "Buehrle Haters" thread right now. He takes ALL the heat so he players dont have to. I'd rather see some of these players who aren't performing take heat right now. And Ozzie taking all the heat doesn't overshadow the fact that he can not manage, at all.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 08:47 AM) I am in the Anderson needs a second season camp. I see some parallels to Crede. Buerhle, still a fan and think his 2007 will be excellent. I'd prefer upgrades in left and short, long relief lefty, and Brandon in the starting rotation. I would be very surprised if we dumped Buehrle this offseason. Even the Cardinals would be very gunshy on this trade, as they recently traded for a soft tossing, declining, high paid lefty that hasn't worked out so well for them (and gave up Haren, Calero, and that top prospects whose name I can't remember in the process). Agreed with your last part too, even if it just means BA in CF, Sweeney in LF, Cintron at SS, a lefty out of the pen, and B Mac in the rotation with Freddy gone. Those small things alone would help a lot.

So we need a new CF and Ozzie deserves manager of the year votes?? Alright, what's this guys screen name on here? Changes are needed, but I doubt Kenny is dumb enough to trade Garcia instead of Vasquez or put Sweeney in CF and dump Brian.

Well Buehrle gets an MRI yesterday, or the day before, or whatever the hell it was, and then tonight only lasts 4+ and gets hit as hard as he has all year (which says a lot this year). Color me suspecious to say the least, and also I must say Hawk's rants on the greatness of Ozzie and how the Hiney Bird STILL bothers him really insulted my intelligence (which is pretty hard to do with me. ) Somebody should trademark the term "Buehrle being Buehrle" for nights like this where he is a straight fastball/changeup pitcher at 83 and 72, and everything is left up. That's not a recipe for success.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 06:24 PM) It's sort of surprising to see how many people want Vaz gone OVER Freddy. I guess that much doesnt surprise me anymore on Soxtalk, but.... Vasquez will be here and Freddy won't in 2006, but even for soxtalk, I'm surprised so many people are silly enough to think Freddy is better than Javy. Javy still has great stuff and can have good stretches, whereas Freddy is now an eternal cesspool of junkballing crap. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 03:36 PM) First off, we were predicted by most publications to finish anywhere from second to fourth. Second, even when we made the playoffs, I don't recall a whole lot of people in the national media predicting a White Sox series win. Hell, I remember after we took the first two games, there were some nuts already talking about a game five matchup, saying that Boston wouldn't lose at home. Even when we made the World Series, there were some that said we'd be shut down by the dominant big three of Houston. What people predict means nada. We had the best team and pitching from day 1 through October 26th, so we were not underdogs at all. The media is a bunch of stupid asses anyways, they don't determine who is the favorite and who isn't, common sense and the teams do.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 09:43 PM) If you're going to play Pods, it should be vs the Indians. It's about the only team he can still own on the bases. Sweeney is faster than Pods and a bigger threat to get on base right now IMO.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:14 PM) Why debate Manuel's possible moves in the playoffs? He would never have made the playoffs. Your fly by posts lately have been so strange that I'll assume your being sarcastic with them.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:15 PM) Twinsfans>>>>>>>>>>any Detroit fans. Detroit is the worst city in our fine nation, but Twins fans are way worse than Tigers ones.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:05 PM) It's a 4 game set. Also, Garza has the ability to shut down the Tigers offense especially with the way they've been playing of late, Boof Bonser has been outstanding since being recalled from AAA on August 9th and Johan Santana is the best pitcher in the game. I wouldn't exactly call them dogs. I wouldn't either. The Tigers are 9-19 in their last 28, the Twins are the best in the game at home, and Bonser and Garza have been better lately, and Johan is Johan. If the Tigers even split up there I'd be surprised. QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:13 PM) We shoudl hope for a detroit sweep, because it doesnt look good for us against the Tribe. Not only are we facing 2 LHP, but our guys have been lit up by the tribe. Mark, Freddy both suck against Cle, only Vaz has a good record against them. Vaz has a great history against them and has been good, he's the one facing C.C., and we kill Lee. I like our chances here actually.

QUOTE(Wealz @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:11 PM) Guillen deserves as much credit as any manager of the underdog teams that have won a World Series in recent history. Guys like Kelly, Pienella, McKeon, and Scoscia. In fact, he probablly deserves more because he took a concesus third place team in the division before the season and won the most games in the A.L. before storming through the postseason @ 11-1. How were we an underdog?? We finished with the best record in the far superior AL, and had the best pitching by far.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:10 PM) Who wouldn't? Even without Radke, facing Santana, Liriano, and Garza/Bonser/Baker is hella scary. Amazing how those guys stepped up, considering by some by the Twins were "done". Well that is hella scary, but I also just hate the Twins and their stupid ass fans.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) I've never said Ozzie is alwys right, but he certainly deserves a lot of credit for last year, no matter how bad of a manager you think he is. Look, part of managing is dealing with egos. Dealing with personalities. Dealing with coaches. This is all stuff we don't see. The Ditka analogy is a good one - because he wasn't a great coach. But to say that any team, whether it was the 85 bears or 05 Sox was a lock to win the WS despite whatever manager you threw in there is just plain ignorant. The intangible qualities that a manager brings - such as motivation - are not apparent to us on a day to day basis. Ozzie might be good at all those things, in fact he probably is for the most part. But that doesn't change the fact that his in game management is an atrocity, and that costs us more games than any of the other stuff he does as manager wins us.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:07 PM) Ozzie is just having a bad managing year I can agree with this. Ozzie in general isn't a real good manager, but he's had a bad year and some bad luck as well. I can't agree on Joey Cora though, he's just a total idiot regardless of what year it is over at 3rd.

If it came down to it, I'd rather see them in the playoffs (along with us of course) than those bastards from Minnesota.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:03 PM) That is your whole point? He'd most likely go with a pitch count. Big f***ing deal. You can't rely on your starters to throw complete games every time out. If they can stay under 110 pitches, then that's great. If not, then you go to your bullpen. Exactly. That Angels team was last in the AL in walks IIRC last season, and their offense wasn't that good in general, so of course our great starters (another factor) had a chance to go deep into all those games. It's all part of the "everything was going our way" thing. QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:04 PM) 101, so your point is basically that Ozzie always deserves none of the credit and all of the blame Only if your point is Ozzie is always right and he could have taught Casey Stengal a thing or two about the game of baseball.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) It did not backfire. That's the whole point. Say what you will about him, but Ozzie made a lot of great calls during the playoffs. Yes, he made a couple of bad ones too, but mostly he was on. What if Manuel takes a starter out of 3 and 4 and a reliever gets blown up? Who's to say the whole series doesn't change then either? They worked, but if he had been more conventional we'd have still won the games. Everything just went our way that October, nothing really could have stopped us, not even Ozzie and his crazy, unconventional, and at times stupid moves. That's my point.

The thought of this is right, but we were out of the race and way below .500 overall in 2001 by July, so I can't really compare the 2.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:56 PM) Okay, so when would Manuel have removed each starter for games 2 through 5 of the ALCS last year? That was my whole point. That he WOULDN'T have just handed the ball to the starter. Buehrle was cruising in game 2, I highly doubt even Manuel would have taken him out. Games 3 and 4 were blowouts, and game 5 was when the Angels bullpen collapsed. So I don't see what difference it made, other than it meant our bullpen went into the World Series not having worked in forever, which could have really backfired. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:57 PM) Actually, I think that proves the point exactly. Garland was babied by Manuel. Ozzie leaves him out there, so at first, naturally he struggles. Then he learned. Garland would not have learned those skills under Manuel. Yeah, Ozzie deserves a ton of credit for Garland, I think even the most anti Ozzie people out there would easily admit that.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) Thats what I meant, if you completely take out defense, Morneau is not exactly up to par with Dye, Manny, or Ortiz. Agreed. But Manny and Ortiz's team is collapsing, which kinda takes them out of this, and if Dye's team doesn't make the playoffs, he won't get it either. I'm just saying if it came down to Morneau and Jeter, give it to Morneau. But if that happens, Jeter has the award on lockdown (if he doesn't already ).

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) Of course, whenever Ozzie puts players in and they fail, it's his fault for putting them in, but whenever Jerry puts a player in, it's probably the player's fault for not performing. Let me again make myself clear: Both are BAD managers, but Jerry would be a bit better with this team IMO simply because Jerry just stayed the hell out of the way and did nothing, something this team often times needs. Plus, he knew when to take a starter out (outside of his lack of trust in Garland), something Ozzie doesn't.