whitesoxfan101

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) Ozzie was the manager when the Sox won the WS, and we'll always appreciate him for that. Many great managers have won the WS, and many crappy managers have also won the WS. However, if Ozzie wanted to be remembered for only winning the WS, he would have retired after last season. This is a new year, and he needs to be responsible for the day-to-day decisions he's making on and off the field. It's very eerie how similar the Ozzie/Ditka comparisons are right now. It's even scarier because a lot of Bears fans STILL think Ditka was a great coach, when in reality he was a pretty bad one.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:50 PM) YES! I was just about to post that, it sure seemed like a sentamental with Guillen going to Hermanson late in the game. It made no sense at the time and it makes even less sense now. That move and Marte in game 3 at Boston were 2 of the worst effin' moves I've ever seen a manager make in the playoffs. That was blind luck we got away with both of them (Geoff Blum in the 14th, the El Duque inning).

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:48 PM) Okay how about this trap: Ozzie won the world series last year, true or false? Manuel couldn't even win a friggin' playoff GAME. Assumptions aren't good. What if Manuel managed us in '04 and '05, and Ozzie did all the Manuel years instead. Who's to say things don't go the same anyways.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:48 PM) I just dont get the Morneau love. His numbers just arent that great IMO, his slugging avg is well below the main guys in that group, and he also doesnt play defense. Neither does Jeter (contrary to the lies ESPN tells us), Ortiz, Ramirez, and even Dye is average. Defense has no factor in this year's AL MVP at all. Also, I'll admit, I'd give it to Morneau if I have to just because as poor a candidate as he is, Jeter is worse, easily.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:46 PM) An Outfield of Sweeney, Anderson, Dye would imediately improve the starting pitching which should be the #1 goal of management. That sort of OF defense will save more runs than you can imagine. Indeed. And it would also improve the offense, as Sweeney could piss on his bat instead of swing it and he's an improvement over Pods at the dish right now.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:43 PM) Choose one: Jerry Manuel - 65% shot to win last year's world series, and 100% chance of 1st place this year Ozzie Guillen - world series last year, current set of events I'm sorry, but saying Manuel and Guillen would've managed things the same is just ignorant. Let me ask you this. Would Manuel have brought Buehrle in to close a World Series game? Hell no. It was the right call. Jerry Manuel loses game 3 of the WS every day of the week, IMO. Well obviously there are certain senarios where one would do better than the other, but overall I think things would tend to lean towards Jerry in terms of how he manages a team. I won't debate this one much further though, I think that overall they both blow, and for people to keep bringing up Jerry and Bevington and such is silly. The White Sox have had a lot of poor managers, and Ozzie is included in that group. He did a good enough job to not screw up anything last year, but I still think that you can only win in spite of Ozzie, not because of him, and that that fact if very obvious.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:39 PM) I love Cintron in the 9 spot. Mediocre defense, mediocre with the stick, but he has had a knack for the clutch this year, and gets on base more often than Uribe. If this team didn't have enough power, than Uribe would be the better choice of the two. As is, I'll let Uribe and his .261 OBP stay on the bench. Cintron hits for decent average, hits in the clutch, and hits bad pitches. That's all I really ask for from my #9 hitter, not many #9 hitters are worth a crap anyways.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) I'd like to think this was supposed to make sense The feeling is mutual in regards to many of your posts. As much as Jerry was lame, if you gave Ozzie some of the pens that Jerry had to deal with, we'd get beat late in just about every game.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:35 PM) Personally, it's hard for me to say. Jerry fuggin hated Garland it seemed, so I'm not sure he'd ever get his confidence built up to where it is now. However, if we were to throw that aside, I think you are looking at a team in first place by probably two games. For how completely horrible Jerry Manuel was, he actually knows how to manage a bullpen. Agreed on all counts. If we had a manager that could manage a pen AND make a proper lineup (which to be fair, Jerry couldn't do either), I think we could have half a dozen more wins right now.

Red Sox fade kills off the shot of Manny or Ortiz being MVP I think. However I agree with what I believe is the premise of this thread, which is Manny isn't getting enough props this year and might be more of an MVP candidate than Big Papi. As for MVP, if we make the playoffs it's Dye, if Minny does it's Morneau, and if Detroit collapses and both make it, flip a coin. I refuse to give Jeter and his shockingly overrated defense, along with lack of run production, a lifetime achievement award MVP.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:32 PM) I like pods lower down in the lineup for now...maybe he can help roll the lineup over. I like the idea of Brian and his near .300 BA the last 2 months, along with Cintron and his solid play, rolling the lineup over better than Pods, who's OBP is like .255 the last 8 weeks.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:32 PM) hammer, hypothetical here. Pretend JM's managing the Sox this year. What's our record? Jerry didn't trust his staters nearly as much as Ozzie does, so that's several more wins off the bat.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:30 PM) Sweeney at 1, Pods at 8 and Cintron at 9!!! please Move Sweeney to left (and use Mack and even Ozuna too if you want out there), Brian to center, and Pods to Texas. Leave the rest of the lineup alone. THEN you have the lineup for good.

If ignorance is truly bliss, this is the happiest thread in the history of the site. Oh, and fair weather means you only care when they are good, not being a crazy die hard who doesn't like stupidity. That is all.

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) Ok: - His team shows no intensity. Jerry Manuel was fired for this. - He leaves his starters in too long, which not only has led to higher ERAs for his starters, but it hasn't helped them with their fatigue this season. - He keeps playing Scott Podsednik, even though there are other alternatives. - He continues to put Mackowiak in CF, even though Mackowiak himself says he sucks out there. That one is the worst of his sins all year IMO. Keeping starters in to "rest the pen" and try and get his boys in the rotation more wins has cost us games due to them blowing up, as well as made them even more tired. A lot of points on Ozzie can be argued either way, but that isn't one of them.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 10:05 AM) I wish a REAL ciriticism of Ozzie would show up. The pitching sucks, the players cant hit in the clutch, its obviously the manager's fault!!!!! Oh how spoiled you all have become, longing for the days of Jerry Manuel. Ozzie Guillen has yet to put his players in the best position to do well all year, at all. It's not his fault the team has underachieved, but if he managed his talent better we'd be several games better, and that's a blaringly obvious thing to people who watch the games. And are you happy with Ozzie throwing younger guys under the bus, while saying that our career minor league former LF'er is just "trying too hard"?

QUOTE(SnB @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 09:28 AM) the sox haven't had the word "fun" associated with them in my mind since june. Well, unless you count the word fundamentals, because we have none. We'll be fine. We still have the best manager in Chicago history, Ozzie Guillen, and it's not his fault we have no fundementals, and can't pitch or hit anymore. That's all on the players, and Ozzie ALWAYS puts them in the best position of succeed.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 09:40 AM) You are so full of crap. Every time he puts a player in any position this year, the player has failed. We are lucky, with this pitching staff, that we are even close to being in the playoffs. If we had Jerry Manuel or Terry Bevington would that make you happy? Ozzie is probably the best manager we have had in 50 years, and the only one you have seen bring us a World Series ring. BUt you are right, it is his fault that every changeup our staff throws gets rocked, that Paulie hit into 2 double plays last night. We are lucky to have Ozzie as our manager, without him we would never be considered one of the elite teams in the league like we are now. I just wish you guys would come up with a new argument. It's not his fault the pitching is bad, or that the hitting is bad when it is, and he brought us a championship. Nobody is naive enough to buy that crap anymore, and I wish a new defense of Ozzie would show up.

QUOTE(Steff @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 08:39 AM) I'm going to guess you weren't suspended because you are ashamed of Oz's managing.. but rather for comments like above that the mods and admins have asked time and time again not be made. Nah that kind of stuff didn't get me suspended, luckily enough people around here say it so that I guess it won't do that. I got suspended due to the incredible amount of Ozzie defenders driving me loco, and thus me making stupid comments directly. However it's bizarre that I come back just several days later, and the majority of the people defending Ozzie now are on my side. I guess the movement of common sense really got rolling.

She'll make a great psychopathic leader of the "Church" of Scientology one day. All those damn weak minded people with depression.....selfish brats.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 08:08 AM) ^^^^^ No, Ozzie just sucks and mishandles EVERYONE on the team. Ozzie has still done an epic bad job this season, however if we were healthy we'd still probably make the playoffs. That doesn't change anything about Ozzie though, he's failed miserably at doing his biggest job, which is put players and the team in the best position to succeed, but is a testament to the job KW did once again. I won't go on though, I know with the Ozzie lovers that if we don't hit, it's not his fault, and if we don't pitch, it's not his fault. His only job is to get the players to play hard and play "Ozzieball!!" This tight clubhouse, tight team, and general lack of balls is nothing he can control, of course. He did his job last year, and should be manager for life.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 07:47 AM) This is why this whole "argument," if you can even call it such, is so ridiculous. So basically Ozzie Guillen is a bad coach for wanting improvement out of his young centerfielder who, however you want to dice it, has put together a terrible season at the dish? False. Ozzie Guillen has been a bad manager because he makes horrible in-game decisions, and then even worse decisions off the field. Scott Podsednik has been beat up this year, but placing blame on anyone but him, considering he was the driving force for one of the worst offenses in baseball last year, is just plain ridiculous. Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez? Mark Buehrle's woes in the second half? The players who have had to step up haven't, the players who stepped up last year, have not. I was suspended from this board because I was so ashamed of Ozzie Guillen's managing abilities, or lack thereof. The guy has never been a good manager, hell, he's never been even an average manager. When you're winning, it's tough to argue against him. The same BS went on last year around here. Ozzie Guillen was the best manager in the history of baseball, then suddenly the team struggles in late August and September, and that notion takes a complete 360. Regardless of how bad of a manager Ozzie Guillen is, he's kept this under achieving ball club in contention all year. Nobody should jump ship when you're only a game and a half out. Many Red Sox fans which was viewed as humor over here did, and then suddenly Julian Tavarez and Kason Gabbard look like Cy Young and the Red Sox are "back in it," according to most. Step back from the ledge, there's alot of baseball still to be played. Even being a game and a half back a month from now, the White Sox would still have a chance to beat up on the Twins and sneak into the playoffs. First of all, the Red Sox are STILL dead. There is no chance in hell that they catch the Twins. None. As for the bolded point, welcome to the club. Although I will disagree with your point that Ozzie has kept this underachieving club in contention, because the raw talent level is the actual thing that has kept us there. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 08:17 AM) The one thing that Ozzie needs to be asked is why at the beginning of spring training did he say he didn't care what Anderson hit, he was only concerned about his defense? To me this is very inconsistent with his tune now. Ozzie Guillen is a stupid ass hypocrite. Not exactly surprising or breaking news, but nobody will ask him any tough questions since "he won us a championship" last year. After all, he was the one that made the pitching great, and he kept the clubhouse loose as we nearly blew a 15 game lead!!

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:50 AM) This team makes me want to stab myself in the eye. So if that's fun, then yes. It's really sad to see you become one of us. Hating on Ozzie, b****ing, feeling like you want to hurt yourself, hopeless...... Congrats on being one of the crazy ass diehards!! You'll hate it...errr love it around here.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 12:44 AM) What kind of stuff does he have though? What does his fastball hit normally? This is the part where I wait for one of the futuresox hierarchy to rescue me and tell us. I will say this though: With those splits, he obviously throws some nasty ass s*** with a lot of movement and velocity.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 12:51 AM) The point may be many of you love BA because the other option is s***ty Mack. Could it be KW erred big time in giving Oz no other option like ROWAND??? KW definitely erred in only having 1 man who can play CF on the roster, that one really can't be argued.