Princess Dye

QUOTE (Cubano @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 03:33 PM) If we judge Viciedo 231 average as not being ready, then we should do the same with any player in disregard of any position. I understand the reasoning about giving a player (Viciedo) a chance to play everyday in the minors as oppose as sitting in the bench. I preferred him to back up at 3B, RF and DH in the majors 3 times a week as oppose as being in the minors. I am sure I am in the minority with this view. RF and DH he wont get many atbats though. Those are absolute key guys to our play this year, as old as they may be. We cant disregard the positions, it'd be nice but we're defending division champs and it's not a year for doing that. This is a year where we go young at a few positions, but the top tier guys we have are locked in unless there's an injury.

Thats the thing. The fan in us wants to see our young guy get at least a chance to play. We have to fight that off knowing what's best for the organization and player is everyday play, albeit not on the ML club.

I'm already in here saying that it's Fields' time this year. But my larger point is that if someone wants to compare Fields to Crede, we still have to. Because Crede could still have been a 2009 player for the White Sox, if enough things had gone right with negotiations in the past. The Sox chose to move away from Crede, and therefore the comparisons can begin. But I'm all for Fields being the guy this year. Gotta go young and get cheap contracts to effectively retool, especially at a position like 3B

For a 20 year old, though, a fair shot isnt necessarily an even battle with Fields. If they had tied, Fields wouldve gotten it. Viciedo had to dominate to win. Viciedo comes in and has a dynamite spring...Fields falters....then yes the job is his. Fields did not falter. I mean, the tone you use here is appropriate for a situation where a guy totally raked and shouldve won the job. But Viciedo had only a nice spring, Fields had a stellar one with some glove issues. I suppose your argument is that defensively, Fields was bad enough to warrant losing the job. I dont think we saw enough badness for that. You may in the end be right that Fields should be a DH, but the offense was too good to result in Fields being demoted to a bench role. It's just a matter of slotting a 20 year old in one place in the organization, slotting a later twenties guy in another.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 01:58 PM) Everytime you get questioned on a baseball opinion you come up with this "I lived in Cuba.....I love free speech....MLB/upper management/ etc is responsible" stuff. I get it. I know where you are from, I respect what you have gone through, and you probably have seen and experienced things that I will never get close to. But thats not what I am talking about. Im talking about how you have constantly criticized Ozzie and KW as if they have some agenda to keep Viciedo down and not let him advance. There is none of that, this isnt a conspiracy to hold the Cubans down. The Sox were thrilled to death with Alexei last year, and they are going back for more with Viciedo, the only problem is that Viciedo isnt quite ready yet, and Fields has been preparing for this for the last 3 years of his life. There is a reason that Fields was drafted by the Sox, and that was to be their future 3B, and the Sox owe it to themselves to see if Fields can do it, and at the same time they are giving Viciedo constant at bats in the minors to make sure that he plays consistently. I havent read all Cubano's posts, but I get kyyle's point of view now. We cant be so far in support of one player that it blinds us. Cubano, I think we all know Fields has defensive deficiencies. But I think we also would say that if Viciedo was a defensive dominator at 3B, he'd have the job. But he doesnt. To beat out Fields, Viciedo wouldve had to do everything above-and-beyond outstanding. He was nice but not outstanding, so he's 20 and he'll go to the farm for a bit.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 01:52 PM) Talking about a guy who can't stay healthy is nuts. He can't stay healthy. This is like Cub fans pining for Prior because of 2003. Sure if Joe was healthy then he would be on this team. But he can't stay healthy. So whats better, signing a guy and praying he can stay healthy at 3rd base. Then watch him sail throws over the 1st baseman's head like last year because his back is hurting. Uribe out produced Crede last year and played better D. Think about that for a second. Thanks for 2005 Joe, its time to move on. We start with Josh Fields and give him some time. If it doesnt work out, we move on to the next guy. Well, the Sox were still faced with a decision. Give Crede a cheap contract that beats out Minny's (but not by a ton)......and pursue trades for Fields Or Keep Fields only. I would agree with anyone that would speculate Fields likely has low trade value at this point. But you cant talk about Crede as if he was in line for a huge payday. Because of his injuries, we wouldve gotten a massive discount. We can make ourselves think it was a no-brainer to soothe ourselves, but there's still baseball to be played. You can wish it away, but Joe Crede will have atbats this year. if Crede turns around his career on a bargain deal, maybe we made the wrong move. You have to at least admit that is possible. My only point here is that all this is still to be determined. I would agree with your guesses but I dont cement them as automatic fact that they're right and praise the organization. I wait and see, and these boards are better if more people keep the critical eye. Your own description of fandom SEEMS to be (defintely correct me if i'm wrong) keeping the critical eye until the Sox make a decision, and then support that decision til the next critical decision has to be made. I say this based on your last two sentences.

QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 01:36 PM) With how many times I've heard "Crede would've gotten that" you'd think he was the best defender at 3B in history. We will all think Crede could've gotten a ball as soon as Fields can't, that doesn't mean you have to post it every damn time. The worse part about it is people will say that on plays Crede may have not gotten to. I thought it was bad hearing so much about god, I mean Rowand after he left I'm thinking I haven't seen nothing yet... I'm not the biggest Crede guy, but we're pretty naive if we think we're gonna just put Josh in there and never talk about the guy he's replaced. This is the big leagues. Management will be judged on what moves they have made. One move they made is choosing Fields over Crede. You can talk about Boras all you want but end of the day the Sox decided to go young at a position where they had a nice prospect. I dont fault them at all for that. At the same time, I know it's open game to say "Crede couldve gotten that" because he COULDVE been the 3b. You root for the uniform but you dont do so SOOOO blindly that you never question management's decisions. Otherwise then you are a northside baseball fan. This is coming from someone who felt it was Crede's time to go. We rebuild quicker if we have young guys on contract that are producing. But I dont fault people for referring back to Crede because of Josh is a disaster at 3B, it's natural to make that comparison with a guy who was just recently great at it.

QUOTE (Cubano @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 01:33 PM) Obviously, I am referring about his defense. He won'yt be the first one that hits but can play a certain position. I think most people on this board however are pretty certain that LF,1B, DH and RF are locked up for right now. So Fields is probably only viable for those first three positions, plus 3B. It's gotta be his time at this position regardless of defense. Viciedo will have his time but we have to finally figure out what's up with this now 26 yr old kid.

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) I have hope. Aramis ramirez was pretty brutal early on in his career and is now good enough that nobody cares to bring it up. Sometimes players have to develop defensively too. Great point. Fields is enticing enough this ST that i'm going to forgive a certain amount of errors early on.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 01:24 PM) You are far too biased to be commenting on this. What member of the soxtalk community doesnt have his or her own biases? Just b/c he's Cuban and wants to see his guy get a chance doesnt make him any different from the Josh Fields fan out there. I think Fields is a future LF but I'm definitely willing to go down this road for a year of him at 3b and see what happens. JF is showing his bat needs a place somewhere, just depends where. Also to Cubano i'd just point out that we cant call Fields a failing project if you look at his wild HR per atbat stats from two years ago, and the fact that injuries plagued his 2008

Uribe had an absolutely unreal early 2004 with the bat. And also I wont be the one naive enough around here to avoid saying he couldve had some 'extra help' with speeding that bat up when it was still the era for that sorta thing. All in all, Lillibridge doesnt have a parallel situation with Uribe at this point. Instead of power, he's a toolsy grinder type guy who has to find himself after a lost year last year. I think playing every day, for at least one more year, would be a good idea for him. Nix is a more ideal 25th guy due to age and the experiences he's already had. I think we have enough OFs with the emergency situation allowing Alexei or even Josh to go back there.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 12:19 PM) Probably, yes. Every good pitcher needs a changeup, and so do bullpens. You cant run flamethrowers out there everytime, you have to be able to make batters uncomfortable. Besides, this isnt Poreda vs Carrasco, This is Poreda vs Williams, Ozzie cant go into the season too deep in lefties, and Richard is probably going to be in the bullpen as the swingman And from someone complaining just one post ago that I was putting words in your mouth, now you are going to do the same thing? Funny Everything I framed as a question to you and you answered them. Answered well too. Thats the way it's supposed to go, you didnt do that part though.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) Sure, that "All fire" bullpen worked brilliantly in 2007, lets do that again! So Carrasco is a deeply valued member of this staff then? If Poreda's development was not an issue, are you saying youd keep one of our soft toss guys over him?

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Mar 29, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) Im just questioning the comment "I selfishly wanted a fireballer" as if there were none in the pen already Yr gonna have to find for me the part where I said there were none already. I'm pretty much saying I wanted another. When Carrasco comes out in a tight situation at some point, you'll want another too..

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=2946 I selfishly wanted to see a fireballer added to this bullpen, but I guess we have to think longterm foremost

the day Owens is having will make some angry

guy is sooo taguchi.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Mar 27, 2009 -> 05:09 PM) The Sox REALLY need someone to back up SS/2B not named Lillibridge. Hopefully Nix can come back quickly enough to serve in that role without L'bridge doing too much damage in early April. As bad as Betemit looked at SS early in spring training, L'bridge's offensive futility makes me wonder if I'd risk the bad D for Betemit's gazillion times better offense. Betemit will definitely play when someone needs a rest in the IF Lillibridge will only start in odd emergencies

Lilli's Ks Doin what he do.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Mar 27, 2009 -> 04:04 PM) Nice to see guys like me that only see WGN turning it off by the 3rd inning! It's surprising to read those comments. You watch these games not to see a victory but to see how the guys are progressing individually. At least thats what i do.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 27, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) Crede would have hit a double. The funny thing about all this Fields/Crede stuff I apparently started is that I never mentioned Crede, nor am I any big supporter of his having been retained. It was his time to go. My main point was just that a 3b with quicker instincts gets to that, Fields has a ways to go. No mention of Crede in my post.

I believe DJ just said that he was bragging about Richard to the Cubs' people before the game

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 27, 2009 -> 03:26 PM) Oh dear lord, tell me we won't have to deal with these type of posts all year. There's not a 3rd baseman in the history of baseball who could have fielded that. Farmio indicated immediately he felt Fields didnt see that one early enough off the bat. There's no 3rd baseman in history who couldve gotten to that one as late as Fields started moving. By no means a very doable play but it was not a top tier absolute scalder down the line

Hate to say it but that extra base hit couldve been had by another 3b He was playing the line too

There's one poster here who is big into BL right? Hey maybe he can play here this year. Losses will cause a shakeup and he can play a few question mark positions.