Princess Dye

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 27, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) First three players single against Richard. And yes DA, it's pathetic Owens hasn't had his fate determined already. Why would they cut him early if he's out of options? Not saying he's going to turn it around but there's no upside to it. If your pinch runner Lillibridge gets hurt, you have Owens to fall back on. That's the downside to doing it, there's no upside. I'm glad fan-type passion is absent from most coaching staffs out there.

Soriano's hop is shocking every time.

DJ just said on the radio that it's shaping up to be Lillibridge likely making the team as a utility guy. I know he's not that young -- but being purely a ceiling guy (with little in the present).....shouldnt he be in the minors playing every day? We may never really find out about him if he's up here sitting on the bench.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 26, 2009 -> 08:40 PM) What are your keys to success this season? Mine are: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. The problem with this year is how many more there potentially can be than 5. Last year a lot went right. Yet since then ....we dumped top-of-the-order OBP, infield defensive players and a major innings eater.

I guess I just think that everyone responding here is going back to the old Wise/BA debate, whereas no one is addressing the topic of the thread.... which is whether or not the good things BA brings you get thwarted when he's placed in the 1-slot. Again, to me the good things BA brings are negated if you give him that many crucial atbats per game. Wise is part of the discussion b/c he brings talents more suited to leadoff. But if we're talking about the two players without talking about leading off..... then there are other more appropriate threads for these types of responses. I probably contributed to this getting off track myself. I would wish it wasnt an issue, but the team has said it prefers Getz lower in the order. We all hope that changes it seems, but b/c of Ozzie's comments, the topic is a necessary one.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) You're trying to look at this in isolation now which is a flawed way to go. I believe it was you that brought up the solitary incident of a shallow OF pop up, im just reactin here

Let me also say that I'd join most in wanting Getz leading off and then wanting the CF in the 9th hole. But this thread's about the possibility that BA will be getting regular playing time in the leadoff slot. To me we give up more than we get with that.

Can you guarantee me Wise doesnt get to that ball? But we're talking about the batter who gets the most chances to do something per game. I would fully agree that KW has not stocked our roster right this year. That aside, if taken back in time to 2005 opening day.....would you rather decrease Rowand's defensive abilities..... or lop off a bunch of Pods' OBP?

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) Arguing against Brian's D in favor of a 16 point increase in batting average, a 21 point increase in OBP, and a mistake pitch Wise hit for a home run off a young pitcher in his first playoff game that we also happened to lose is about the weakest argument that can ever be made. To me a 21 point increase in OBP matters if youre talking about the hitter who bats most per game. Then once he's on base one guy is better suited to making a pitcher lose his focus.

I guess I just dont share this view at all. How many opportunities are there for a guy like Anderson to impact a game with his ability to cover more ground? The .300 hitter gets several opportunities per game.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 12:24 PM) Uribe 10 times out of 10 vs. Wise. In that same postseason when they were teammates, Uribe was .167 av, .167 OBP. Far below Wise's #s. Obviously these are tiny sample sizes. It's just my view that the BA side of this overvalues defensive CF. We're going to be the type of team that needs to hit. I think Wise's .248/.293 from last year made a difference over BA's .232/.272. He's more of a 'when he hits em' type. With guys like Thome and Fields, I just feel we need an extra batter who can hit in situations.

And people will get on me for the last post, but I think in 05 our winning the world series was not all-out determined by having Rowand in CF. That was icing on the cake, but we couldve won the title with a lesser defensive CF. A bigger reason we won is that we were dangerous 1 thru 9. We had quick bats in that lineup, not long swings like Anderson's. A guy like 05 Uribe, to me, compares to Wise. He can be clutch, even if his norm is unimpressive. Anderson at the ML level has only shown the occasional power and hasnt proven he can do X in situation Y. It's just totally random with him.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 11:34 AM) I still haven't seen a convincing argument as to why this is the case. Wise last year had the higher Avg and OBP than Anderson. He had 5 RBIs in 7 ABs in the postseason. Overall his postseason offensive stats were solid. I think that adding a clutch hitter to your lineup matters more than that sliver of flyballs that cant be gotten to by Wise/Dye that can be gotten to by Anderson/Dye. If your team's out of contention, fielding can get you more wins. If your team's in contention, which we hope to be, then what will matter more is that extra clutch hitter. If our pitchers are allowing tons of gappers that test the centerfielder all year, then we arent playing for anything anyway and it matters less. To me, the opportunity cost of BA in the lineup is too great. I hope this is finally the year that this stance is wrong.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) When exactly did Wise show the capability to play decent defense. He is a poor defender who takes bad routes constantly. How many times must we see him react poorly on the stroke of the bat, then run to the wall to get the ball that he should of either caught or kept in front of him. Defense is not one of Wise's skillsets. I dont think we saw him enough there last year. For offense and defense, people act as if we had Wise as a starting CF for a whole year. I'm not saying it'll be a strength but I dont know that it's a giant weakness for him over the course of the next year. I remember a bad moment or two last year, but I wont judge until I see a larger sample size. No one would argue he's a worldbeater. Just saying he's better than the other two CF options.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 23, 2009 -> 09:57 AM) Handing a career minor leaguer 31 year old a starting job because he turned on a straight fastball from Kyle Farnsworth in mid-september sounds like a pretty stupid idea to me. He has shown more of an ability to get hot than the other two candidates. They're all poor hitters. One has shown he can hit in the clutch. Seeing as how he'll lead the team in plate appearances each game, I'll take that over the other two options, as long as defense will remain decent at the position.

It makes sense that Floyd would jump at this before Danks, in that he has already faced some serious turmoil in his development already. Went for the security.

If you refuse to sign free agents to market deals, then you have to do stuff like this. I'm fine with it. putting a staff together piecemeal is how we did it immediately prior to 05. If it means payroll stays up later by getting big bashers in the lineup (once Dye/Pk/JT are gone) then i will be ok with doing it this way. But Danks is smart to wait and see.

Many thanks. I could hear the people with torches headed down my block.

i really cant wrap my mind around this one. He doesnt have a short quick swing, he doesnt take walks. He'll get from first to third but thats about all I can think. He wont steal bases.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 01:30 PM) It's not all about trade value. I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you are looking bigger picture. Here is an example. .296/.371/.471/.842 100R, 20 HR, 100 RBI, 22 SB. Those numbers get put up by a 2B or SS, he is a superstar. Instead, those numbers were put up by Bobby Abreu last season, and it got him a 1 year, 5 million dollar deal this offseason. even better! then it's a great value to keep him there and save some dough one day! but his future free agency totally aside, is it more valuable to us to have a player be a superstar, or to fill all the slots on the team. I would hate to bench Chris Getz and have a 4th OF type in LF, all because we wanted to maximize Becks' superstar value. There are a few superstar level guys in the last decade that changed positions for the good of the team. That has to always come first. Frighteningly, the argument you make would probably be the same line of logic used by A.Soriano when he was refusing to play i think LF a few yrs back. I think Soriano's an example where his team eventually was better served by him moving to OF. I dont think Becks will play defense as bad as him in the IF, but if Getz is solid then we may be faced with that decision.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) That's kind of contradictory - a premium bat at C or SS is like finding the holy grail. There's a big difference between Beckham being a serviceable SS and putting up quality production and Beckham just being a decent LF. The only one that wouldn't be a significant step down would be 2B. response to your edit: if his ceiling is being a solid defender at SS and being an .850-.900 OPS type player, that's one of the most sought after players in baseball. I'm probably misrepresenting what I mean. By all means Beckham has greater trade value if he stays as an SS here. But if youre fully stocked in the IF and have an opening in LF...... there are some players you would hesitate to move there. Beckham you wouldnt hesitate with because he's a good enough bat to be a corner outfielder and not have your organization lose a step. If Getz doesnt pan out, then by all means keep Becks in the IF. I mean we have all this young cheap talent, so we're set up for years potentially with young players here. A lot of guys who can play 2b/SS/3b. The decision may come down to just flat out evaluating how good a SS Alexei is. If Alexei is top flight at this position, you make moves to work around that. If Alexei is just OK, and is the only one who can play CF, then he moves there. I would have to believe though that we have a real (maybe leadoff) CF somehow in 2 yrs.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 01:01 PM) Why was Flowers acquired BearSox? Why was he the center piece of the Vazquez deal? Do you think he would have been the center piece of the deal if he was DH'ing most of the time in A ball? Or is it possible his value is highly increased because he has a strong bat at incredibly weak position across baseball? Right, but I think the difference is that Flowers projects to be a (maybe) good hitter for the catching spot, whereas Beckham many believe will be a top flight hitter regardless of position. If we're just talking purely about ceilings that is.

What would be verrry nice is for Allen and Viciedo to grab spots and then you have a very manageable payroll with which to go out and get veteran short term starters.

One thing I like about our current club's outlook is that we have several years of rights to young talent at some of the tougher positions to get thru free agency. We're set up nicely to have the tough spots locked up and the we can go out and get the Jermaine Dye type acquisition from 05, where you have a power guy perhaps going thru an off year and will come relatively cheaply. OF/1B/DH is always out there.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Mar 22, 2009 -> 12:39 PM) Moving Beckham to the OF is going to severely diminish his value. His bat certainly doesn't project him being in the upper tier of OF's(corner OF's to boot). A lot of Beckham's appeal is his hitting ability a tough position to field. Unless yr talking about trade value, i dont get it. He sure as heck has a chance at being better with the bat than any OF in the organization, perhaps minus Quentin. I think the player's value is relative to the situation. Obviously if by 2010, Getz and Fields pan out, and AR has an amazing defensive year..... but we're stuck with a subpar corner outfielder.... then his greatest value comes in moving to fill the slot. EDIT: If we really want to break it down, lets analyze all the spots that are going to open up in 1-2 years. You're going to need a DH, 1B, a corner outfielder...you'll still likely need either a CF or IF, one of whom can leadoff. I would like to think we go out and get a free agent OF who locks the position down - a lot of money will have come off the books. But assuming one of Allen or Viciedo wont pan out, you have to think Beckham or AR will make sense as a move to OF. There's actually too much talent in IF as we stand. Low paid, long term talent too. In short I think we're gonna one day have two OF spots available. One hopefully will be a solid FA, the other could be an inhouse guy being shifted around. Possibly Becks or AR. Or Fields too.