Balta1701

2 games,$400 or so with concessions, 7 hits; 0 runs; still a lovely time and great ballpark. Yes the white sox are this bad. Congrats on 7 below, worst of the season so far and looking forward to 8 below tomorrow at this pace. If somehow we win tomorrow the Cole vs Danks on Thursday doesn't exactly look favorable.

STOP CALLING THE OFFSPEED STUFF SOTO

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 06:30 PM) The acoustic guitar guy outside just played "I don't wanna lose your love tonight" and congratulated the Hawks. Backhams doing something correct tonight. And now Don't Stop Believin'. We're winning this f***er. He doesn't know what he just did to the Bucs luck.

The acoustic guitar guy outside just played "I don't wanna lose your love tonight" and congratulated the Hawks. Backhams doing something correct tonight.

Everybody saw this right? (WGN embed code failed)

4th row, 3rd base side, right behind the tarp. 05 WS T Shirt and Hat. Come on Jose, I want one HR out of these 2 games.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) You don't think that cops have a better memory or a better ability to process memories than normal people? That's their job. They train for it and experience it everyday. Regular people don't. QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) No. They are just as human as us "normal" people. Memory actually becomes less reliable in tests during high-stress situations so it might even be that they're less reliable than a randomly chosen witness.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) I said the people who lied should be named. You seem to want to be charitable in this case and assume that they just made a mistake. Eyewitness testimony is for sure unreliable when they outright lie. If they STFU about it now that it was shown on video that they were completely wrong, I will let you stick woth your innocent mistake version. However if they continue to try and push a narrative that just isn't supported by the video, then they are lying and deserve any shame, ridicule or whatever comes their way. Not sure where I said that, you crossing me up with someone else's statement? My first reply on that video was to your specific question as to whether or not we apply that same standard of poor memory among witnesses when it involves a cop shooting an unarmed (black) person.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) Screw this. All Star Game is voted on by fans for fans to pick players they want to pick. I think it is tremendous for baseball that the Royals of all teams are somehow able to get 8 guys in (as it currently stands). Way to go KC. PS: Yes, my opinion would be different if it were the Yankees. I admit it, but for Kansas City to control the ballets like that, awesome. Great resurgence. I also highly doubt it will end up this way. This should send a shockwave to the other market teams to vote for other guys. It's been like this for a while and the vote totals for the Royals are huge, they already have 1.5 to 2 times as many votes as the winners got last year.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 01:38 PM) I have no idea what you are rambling on about. In this particular case "Surveillance video was released showing the victim within three feet of the cop, swinging at him with the pole in a blow that landed just as the cop was shooting him." The only wrong eye witness case seems to be from people who wanted to promote an agenda. Unless I misread, you asked specifically if we apply the same standard of "witnesses being unreliable" to the cases where African Americans wind up dead while unarmed. My response is...yes we do. The problem is we apply that to the police officers and to the other witnesses too, whereas the people who want to justify killing whoever was killed cannot apply that standard to the police officer because then they'd have to admit that the police officer's testimony (given weeks later after coaching) is equally unreliable. That admission would then require a full investigation by some sort of independent prosecutor in many cases whose job it is to filter through conflicting testimony to come up with a narrative for what they believe happened based on the available evidence. That would be a much more troublesome situation than assuming the officer's testimony must be correct as is typically done.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 01:53 PM) It could if the talent level is mediocre due to age and/or regression. There are legitimately 5 players on the team right now that could easily be DFA'd/demoted based on their performance (Danks, Noesi, Bonifacio, Flowers, Sanchez). If that's the case then they're not "underachieving", they're a terrifically poorly assembled team and a gigantic waste of money and development time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 01:52 PM) Key point here. Just keep holding out that hope. When its incorrect I'll expect you to join me in calling for much larger changes.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) You could have Derek Jeter leading this team with the greatest manager of all time (Bobby Heenan), and they still would suck. When probably 80-90% of your roster is underachieving, you're not going to win a lot of games. Just to point out again...this massive of a failure does not happen randomly over an entire MLB season. If that's the case (and I'm not sure it is), then there is a systematic problem with something other than the talent on the field. That could be leadership, that could be preparation, that could be something else...but that does not happen to an entire roster by chance.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) Balta failed to mention that the years where the White Sox were terrible, which contributed to about 80 games below .500, their pitching was awful. When the won the WS, the thing everyone wants, they were a top pitching team, and middle of the road to below average overall offensively. And they were also a solid (not great but above average) fielding team. We don't have a problem with being too good on pitching. We have a problem in that we're terrible everywhere else and we have no resources with which to become non-terrible other than the pitching and no hope of becoming non-terrible in those aspects of the game in the near future unless we use the pitching to do so.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jun 16, 2015 -> 10:11 AM) Did you have that concern every time a white cop got named? If that happened, then maybe people wouldn't rush to make up lies to fit their agenda? These three were perfectly willing to completely screw the lives of the white officers, possibly even put them in the crosshairs, because of what? Would suck for them, but I don't care. Yes, but when we tell you that you can't believe either the testimony of the police officer or the other witnesses in cases because memory of such events is so poor you don't listen because you won't apply that same standard to the police officer and the other key witness keeps not being alive.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 04:30 PM) Melky Cabrera is not a true-talent 52 wRC+ hitter. In his 3 pre Steroid seasons he was 68, 94, 77.

Fun game as long as you've already given up on this team and just enjoyed the shelling. Home for period 3 too.

Hi from 3rd row upper deck 3b side upgraded seats

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 03:14 PM) He has hit into a lot of bad luck, and has been bad when not doing that. It happens. To think he has nothing left and the numbers he has now is basically his ceiling is something the people certain of this will never actually put money on. How long does he have to be this bad before we use that term? 4 months? 6? How much money would you like to put on him being worth 4+ fWAR over his full contract, which would be a significant overpay for that production level?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 03:02 PM) A guy that has has been a 124 OPS+ hitter the past four years doesn't fall off a cliff over the course of an offseason. Yes, Melky has been horrible, no doubt. But he is not a sunk cost. Problems: 1. In reply to the bolded, I first say "Adam Dunn". I second say "Alex Rios". We have a history with this. 2. Melky Cabrera is a possibly worse case than either of those because I can actually say one big reason why Melky would physically fall apart completely that is likely not present in either of those cases.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:14 PM) Hah, if you're referring to Melky, which I believe you are, that is grossly premature. Yes, he has been a big disappointment to this point. Will he be worth the $14M AAV the SOX will pay him the next three years? Maybe not. But a sunk cost? Dear Lord. He will still be a very productive and above average ML outfielder over the balance of his contract, and in today's game, that is about the going rate. John Danks has been worth 0.4 fWAR so far this season. You can probably believe that, he's had a couple solid starts so he's not great but has helped in a few games. Melky Cabrera has been worth -0.8 fWAR so far this season. He's been that bad. You may have confidence in him turning it around, but at the rate he's going right now he's "Worth less than nothing". He could be better than this and still make John Danks look like a bargain.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:26 PM) It's just so maddening that our offense is so bad when it was above average last year, and that was with Avi hurt all year and De Aza and Viciedo getting a lot of playing time. Literally everyone except Avi (who is slumping lately) has taken a big step back this season compared to 2014. The frustrating thing is that if all our guys were even 90% of what they were last season our offense wouldn't be that bad. Did everyone just play over their head last year? I don't think so. But I thought we'd be seeing some positive regression by now and we haven't. We were the 8th offense in the AL last year and scored fewer runs than average in the AL by a small amount. It wasn't "above average", it was average. And it's certainly possible that Adam Eaton and Jose Abreu did play above their heads last year and we're suffering based on that today.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) So the pitching has been great 2013,2014, and 2015? 2015 13th, 2014 13th, 2013 9th. I would venture to guess the pitching was awful in 2007 as well, 12th out of 14. Those are the years the team was totally dreadful, which accounts for the below .500 record since winning the WS. People don't like trading prospects for hitters because too many people think guys like Montas will be stars, when, in reality, the odds are still against him. I'd hang on to Q. Trade Montas and Danish for hitters. If they are thought of anywhere near where some have placed them on this site, there should be plenty of offense coming back. That, and some bounce back from guys who have struggled. I am not talking Tyler Flowers. I think he is what he is, but realistically, Melky is a better offensive player. Eaton is a better offensive player. So is Alexei. Sanchez can't be as bad as he's been. Abreu should do better. LaRoche should hit some more home runs. I'm as sick of watching 1 or 2 runs scored as much as anyone. But this team will hit better. Whether that is this week, next month, in August or next season, they are better than they have shown. If we wait until "next season", LaRoche should be worse. So should Alexei, if he's even back at all (at the current pace he should not have his option picked up). Those guys are just old and so we should be expecting continued decline from them. Danish and Montas could definitely be useful trade pieces, however they're still low enough in the system that the 2 of them together is only going to net 1 solid player, barring extremely amazing 2nd halves. So even if we assume that all the other guys you mentioned are really who we saw in 2014 and not who we saw in 2015, we still have a lineup chock full of holes. It's still a lineup that isn't going to compete with anyone unless Tyler Flowers, Carlos Sanchez, and Micah Johnson can come to its rescue, and that's in the "assume everything goes right" mode, which we should stop assuming because it doesn't happen. If we're determined to compete next year somehow, then trading Montas and Danish almost seems like something we must do because otherwise there are just that many gaping holes, but even then it seems like that's not nearly enough.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 15, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) Pitching is the name of the game. By trading away your good solid pitchers you open a big hole. If we decide to upgrade our #5 starter it might better be through free agency signing. Yes we have to upgrade in the some positions and maybe catcher is #1 followed by 3B. I wonder if Adrian Beltre might be available soon from Texas if they decide to go with Gallo full-time? Here's the problem with that statement...where exactly are we going to get position players otherwise? We're regularly drafting pitchers at the top of our draft. We traded away position players to get a pitcher this year. When we sign position players we are spending high dollar amounts to get guys towards the end of their career. We keep saying "draft and develop pitching and trade it for hitting". Don't we actually have to do that at some point? Put it this way..."Pitching is the name of the game". The White Sox have the lowest offensive WAR in MLB over the last 10 years and are right at the top in pitching fWAR (3rd). That has translated to a below .500 record. Pitching is important but it can't be the only part of the game. We aren't winning by signing veterans to plug holes and developing no offensive talent despite our regularly great pitching.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 14, 2015 -> 10:11 PM) oh we will disagree on this one. the sox didn't finish the job that was started. They didn't have the money to. That's only part of the problem, they spent about all they could and the end result was they had to just go with several positions, guys like Gillaspie and Flowers with no major upgrades. And then on top of that, they did a terrible job with the people they picked (Melky, Samardzija). If they didn't have the money to pull together a legit competitive roster, that makes spending everything you had and trading away cost-controlled players for soon-to-be FA's a set of very large mistakes. They didn't have enough money to build a full roster through FA but decided to dump everything into winning now anyway. That's a complete lack of patience to me.