Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:55 AM) The thing is, you can have a crap team with a good bullpen and compete for the playoffs. Just look at the Indians. Swisher was god awful. Kipnis was down. Bourne was hurt. Asdrubal and Masterson sent packing and bad. Yet they put together an almost entirely new bullpen that was nails and were in it until the last week or so. It's not quite entirely that simple...they still had a "middle of the pack" starting rotation (8th in the AL in ERA, so literally middle of the pack) and an offense that was 7th in the AL despite those things. Their defense was terrible, which is probably why they actually missed the playoffs as much as anything else. I will go with you if you say "A really good bullpen, an average offense, an average starting staff, and an average defensive squad" puts a team right on the edge of making the playoffs and probably in.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) What would the Sox give the Pirates? That's a team that values its young assets very highly. He also strikes out a fair amount and he was banged up this year. It also took a few tries for him to find success in AAA. Frankly, I'm not sure how much of a better option he is than Jordan Danks or Andy Wilkins from the left side of the plate. Are you willing to give up Chris Beck or Tyler Danish for him? Because that's what it might cost. Partly playing devil's advocate, partly playing realist. I like Lambo but I'm not sure he is a guy that should be on the Sox radar. I would probably take him for Viciedo, but why would the Pirates want Viciedo? The Pirates could have a use for Viciedo playing as a 1b/Part time, even platooning with Ike Davis there. I don't know if he's valuable enough for them to part with Lambo, but I could see them being willing to move Pedro Alvarez in something like that much more given the prices involved. They might well be ready to scrap-heap alvarez.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 10:09 PM) You realize Gillaspie has never played LF right? This Gillaspie as the starting LF thing needs to do. He'd be a slightly worse version of De Aza offensively and who knows defensively. Yes, I realize that, but I also am not going to make a guess. Maybe he'd have decent instincts for it, no idea. He's not likely to be that much worse than Viciedo out there.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 09:59 PM) A Gillaspie/Eaton/Avi OF sounds awful defensively. If they bring in Headley (or Sandoval) then Conor is your DH or is traded. I think it could be OK. Avi's weak but Eaton was really strong this year when he was in there.

Pirates at top since I live here now and that would be cool. no Tigers because i want their contract messes to keep getting worse.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 05:24 PM) What we have seen is that Brown has a much lower floor than Viciedo but I think his ceiling is also much higher too. In this situation, you can give him a trial run for a bit and if you don't like it at any point, you can cut him or flip him to someone who is willing to give him another chance. The problem for me is that this is incompatible with putting a roster out there next year that is likely to compete for a playoff spot. It's a perfect thing for a rebuilding team to do, but you don't plan on that as an option while simultaneously spending $40 mil/year on free agents. If Andy Wilkins is our DH to start next season and Carroll is holding down a rotation spot for Rodon, sure throw whoever out there that you want because what's the harm if he does the same thing he did this season? We cut whatever player that is loose and give Sierra and any other waiver wire finds more at bats. But that's not a competitive roster, that's a plan to play for 2016. Hence why I keep thinking it's a poor idea to spend money on the FA's on the 2016 market unless a solid trade happens first.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 05:00 PM) I would guess that their reasoning for not doing so is that they believe they will be able to get more in return for him in the offseason where more teams will be willing to take on chances like that as opposed to just seeing their own guys and having a decision to make. If you want to look at reclamation projects and trading a guy for a guy like that, Viciedo for Dominic Brown makes some sense. The real key was that 2014 was going to be a lost season anyway. If we dumped Viciedo for Dom Brown right now, would you have confidence that move makes us a playoff team next year? Since 2014 was a wasted season, we could take on someone else's chaff, give them the full season of at bats, and then decide whether they showed any improvement on our roster. Instead, we are up a creek. If we want to compete next year, we need to fill a corner OF spot with a competent, non-terrible player, but we're not very likely to get that by trading Viciedo, and even if we did, we're not going to know about that until sometime during the season, when it's way too late to decide on FAs. We can't stick Domonic Brown out in LF, have him put up a low .600's OPS, and compete for the AL central even if we blow a good amount of money on VMart, a pitcher, and a bullpen. Planning to play Brown or any other reclamation project full time in the big leagues next year is calling 2015 a busted season as well. I know Brown wouldn't have been available last year, but last year was the year to make that kind of move with Viciedo if we thought he was likely to continue being the same player.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 04:54 PM) That's a legitimate gripe too, but I think they wanted to see if they could turn him around. Some players need even more time to figure it out, and they'd invested a lot in him. At this point, he's by far the weakest link on the roster. I'd say there's about a 1% chance he's back at this point. I get that. My statement last offseason was that it was all on Hahn. I wouldn't have been mad if they'd just let him go, but the only reason that they should continue to give him playing time is if they thought he could start taking solid steps forward. Instead, we saw a month long hot streak and a dive into continued mediocrity with seemingly the same clown show from him that we got in previous years. That was exactly what you didn't want to get from him, if he was going to keep that up it should have been somewhere else for whatever (even nil) return we could have gotten, that was an important decision that the FO missed.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 04:49 PM) I do not think the defense was nearly as bad as you suggest and the bullpen can be turned around in one year. If you replace Dayan Viciedo with a good player in LF, the Sox are already looking like an improved team overall. But, if you don't think the team will improve at all next year, then you are assuming that Hahn will make no moves. Based on the history of this franchise, or frankly any franchise in the past 30 years, you can safely assume that moves will be made. By the way, if we're talking Hahn, one of his biggest negatives to his score was keeping Viciedo on this roster. Given what we saw from him this year, it was a mistake not to take the best offer we had, whatever hill of beans it was, and cut the cord with him.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 04:38 PM) Noob question, but why would Sale and Q sign team friendly deals like that? If they get a deal like that done in their first or second season, it guarantees them $15 million+ career earnings no matter what happens to their arms. Sale could get hurt tomorrow and still walk away from this game an incredibly rich man. The tradeoff for that is usually giving up a season or two of free agency later and having a few of the years that would otherwise be arbitration years turn into option years. Had they not signed those deals, Sale's salary for example would probably look something like this: 2012: $500k 2013: $850k 2014: $900k 2015: $8 million 2016: $15 million 2017: $20 million after 2017: free agent He wouldn't hit the amount the White Sox guaranteed him until sometime in 2017. He also made $3.5 million in 2014 instead of $1 million and he is also able to borrow against guaranteed future earnings if he wants to do that to buy a house or something.

Just for reference, I do promise to melt down if this actually happens.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) Would love to snag Ian Clarkin from the Yanks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) Hahn could have said that it's conceivable that Sale could pitch out of the bullpen too, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. There are a lot of things that are conceivable that are not ultimately realistic. Except that in his first full year...oh never mind.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) Yeah...cause that Andy Wilkins guy is going to do things. I swear, most everyone on this board would never build a winning team and just wants to sit around and constantly win 80 games. You aren't going to win with the strategy a lot of you propose. If you can fit it, short term, do it. I don't mind a 2 yr deal at big money as that is a time where you can spend it to take team closer and more likely to compete with other things going well and it doesn't block at bats from anyone and give you a quality vet for young players to learn from. If it doesn't work out, you aren't any worse off as we had the payroll flexibility and we haven't filled it up in yrs 3 and 4 where you likely will be changing where you allocate those resources. My counterpoint is that I feel like a lot of people would prefer $100 million+ teams that win 78 games to the low 70's win team we have right now. Maybe that's a slightly more watchable team, but it's still a long way from a contender. And yes, a 2 year deal can still cost payroll flexibility. If we can't add anything useful in the trade market this year, then IMO we'd have a better shot at filling holes following the 2015 season in free agency, but if we blow $25 million on a veteran DH and a couple multi-year relievers this offseason, we're not making a big splash during the 2015 offseason when I think we'd have a more well-rounded shot. That said, again, a single trade could change all that. Right now in my eyes we have way too many holes to think that a big, late 30's signing signing and a couple relievers will turn this team into contenders. Find someone to fill that corner OF spot in a trade and that tune could change.

Awww

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 11:20 AM) It's tough depending on 1 player in general. The Nate Jones injury was huge and had a rippling effect on the whole bullpen. If VMart were to get hurt or decline, then I'm scared we would have the same lineup again. I think we should trade for a young left-handed hitter. Maybe spending this year just doesn't make sense. If we pulled off a successful trade for a young, left-handed hitter (particularly a corner OF, although now I'm out of potential names) then suddenly spending on a Martinez could make a whole lot more sense.

QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 09:32 AM) my question is does signing int'l free agents, is that part of the allotment or is it a typical free agent signing? It depends on the free agent and particularly how long they've played in their league. Don't know the exact age/playing time list, but a guy who has played as long as Abreu or Tanaka does not count against them, but a 21 year old from Cuba would.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 10:59 PM) we certainly aren't as bad as we looked today. The problem is...you're saying that after a home game. It's supposed to be after road games.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 08:33 PM) Would he be a complement to Flowers? Can he be? If he could hit well enough there'd be a role for him, but it's not quite ideal since they're both righties. The real question I have is whether he'll be able to learn defensive techniques/positioning and how to handle a staff if he's being used as a backup. If he could, then he could be the backup C to start the season next year and we could just put up with the "two righties" setup at that position to see what we have. If he's the kind who is only going to learn by getting playing time, the only place he'll get that is in the minors.

And there's Hester walking off injured.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 06:55 PM) I just think he didn't have a part in the Bears offense. Atlanta has been great about running gimmick plays to get him involved, and involving him heavily as a WR. The Bears just didn't have the time for that anymore What's interesting so far here is that the Falcons seem to have been much more effective at it in the first than the Bears ever were.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 06:36 PM) Tell me, how will the Sox (2015), Bulls, Bears, and Blackhawks do this season? Hell just tell me Derrick Rose's knees will stay together.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 05:59 PM) Yep. White Sox have the 8th pick in the 2015 draft. That's great! I can't remember a time when we recently had that draft spot and wound up with a complete bust. Oh.

QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 05:44 PM) I been wondering about what change in him. taking a look at this stats in the last 2 yrs. Last year the thing that changed was that he was apparently finally healthy. He's been hitting at least at the AAA level ever since, but every comment we've heard about his defense and game calling has been poor so far. Combine that with a poor showing with the bat in the big leagues last year and that's where we are right now. Kid has talent but still has work to do.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 04:32 PM) Thank you. I didn't predict a SLG% but I got the .300+ BA , .900+ OPS , .360+ OBP pretty accurately not to mention only 1 off each on HR's and RBI . Remember I also predicted the final score (3-2) and a Toews goal in the Stanley Cup final game in 2013. Technically, if you predict an OBP and an OPS you've also predicted a slugging