Balta1701

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 11:24 AM) What the hell is with people's obsessions with Jake Elmore? I don't get it. The guy is not a Major League caliber player. I'd say the odds of Elmore getting a roster spot over Davidson or Garcia are slim to none. It's a good summary of how poor our roster construction is currently that people are considering him as a legit option for the major league roster. Out of anyone who might belong in the major leagues, only he and Leury have experience playing SS, and Leury really should be in AAA getting at bats. As others have noted, yes, we might just say "hell with it Alexei's going to be healthy for the first 140 games and doesn't need a day off", but IMO that's a risky strategy as well.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 11:01 AM) That seems like an incredibly reasonable deal for Garza. It seems fair, I just don't know why it's the Brewers doing it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) Even in fewer plate appearances Dunn had more walks and twice as many RBIs with a runner at 2nd than with a runner at first in 2013. Once again, facts show it made sense for Rios to get to 2nd base. But just to show how it's much more useful to have someone else hitting behind a guy who can steal 2nd, a glorified singles hitter like Paul Konerko had 3x as many RBI's with a runner at 2nd than with a runner at 1st (in about 60% of the opportunities).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 09:06 AM) Huh? He still hits more singles than homers, and he makes outs so the runner in scoring position helps the next batter. Are you saying Alex Rios shouldn't have been running last season? The guy got thrown out 6 times. I know one of them was at 3B when Dunn was not batting and was went he went on his own. So at most he was thrown out 5 times when Dunn was batting. Probably fewer. No, I'm not going to say he shouldn't have been running because his success rate was so high, but if you're going to have guys who can run in front of anyone in the lineup, but the case you actually are making is that there should be someone hitting between Dunn and the guys who can steal bases if you want that to work, because Dunn was actually 8th on the team last year in hits that didn't leave the park. On top of that, with his ability to take a walk, he moves guys to 2nd fairly often as it is without the speed. With the debacle that was last year's lineup I'm not going to say that there was any "lineup shift" that would have produced better results, but you kinda just convinced me that Dunn should have continued hitting behind Konerko (or behind Viciedo or something like that) last year.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 09:52 PM) Oh, I was watching a Pacers/Bulls from the '98 playoffs. Ratchet as all hell. All slow as s***, no fastbreaks, everybody defending with their hands and fists and wrestling in the paint. That is not basketball. That's lame ass wwe s***. Late 90's/early 2000's ball was just terrible. I'm so glad they cleaned that s*** up. We're lucky as hell today and we don't even realize it. I haven't recently caught any versions of the Bulls/Knicks from the early 90's, but when I catch the repeats of their games against anyone else I'm still stunned watching the Early 90's Bulls teams at how far beyond everyone else #23 was athletically.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 07:41 PM) Considering the amount of outs and strikeouts Dunn makes Rios' 82% success rate was well worth the gamble getting a RISP.. Huh? Adam Dunn is the last guy on the roster who needs a RISP more than a "runner on base".

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 08:44 AM) Laumann was talking about the draft and said this year's draft is better than last year's but still isn't very good. He also said it is high school dominated. So chances are this second round pick that seems to be so valuable, if it ever helps the White Sox win, won't be until next decade. Part of the reason people like Marty can legitimately say that the system is quite weak is that we haven't focused on the longterm for this franchise very much over the past decade, we've focused very strongly on the short term at the expense of the long term. The trick of course is to find a balance that works for you. If you focus too much on the long term, you can wind up like the Cubs and seriously damage your fanbase with 5+ losing seasons. Guys that can do this have jobs for a long time, guys that can't...they need to figure out what they are good at and pull that off.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 10:32 AM) Exactly. I am sure he has talked about numerous possibilities for a catcher long-term. It will be expensive though as far as the talent cost in trade. If you could get a young catcher with 6 years of control for De Aza and Rienzo I think it'd be done already. I bet most teams have asked for Quintana or Erik Johnson though. Esp. with a steroid suspension on his background no one is giving up a lot for Rienzo until he establishes himself more in the big leagues than he's done so far.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 05:14 PM) No offense but you are moving the goalposts and are full of s***. Dunn batted 4th. I am pretty no one bunted in front of him. Rios stole bases in front of him and was very successful. The White Sox stole bases at a 73% clip and needed to steal bases to score. Robin used more pinch runners than any manager in 2013. There was stupid baserunning last year but I find it hard to place blame on a manager when someone gets picked off or misses a sign. White Sox #3 hitters had 1 successful sacrifice bunt last year. They were 1 of only 5 AL teams where the #3 hitter had a sacrifice in 2013, but yeah, only once last year.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 05:30 PM) The White Sox do not have a glut of young SP. Sale, Quintana, Johnson and . . . ? THEN HOW ARE THEY GOING TO RECOUP THEIR DRAFT PICK BY TRADING ONE?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:44 PM) WAR told me. Seriously though, the big dogs will be on the prowl again next year for starters and I believe the market will be higher because of it. And there are, as it stands right now, several big names available on the market to potentially satisfy them. More so than this year in fact. Scherzer, Lester, Bailey, Shields, Masterson. There could be more money spent on those guys than there has been spent on big name starters already this season and still have some left over if that winds up being a 2015 need for the White Sox...which only you are certain will be the case.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:38 PM) If Paulino works out and he's at Charlotte that's best case scenario, that is what we want.Actually considering we'd have to cut him to send him to Charlotte for anything more than a 30 day rehab stint, this doesn't seem to make much sense. He's on a major league contract. You could legitimately get him to Charlotte on a 30 day rehab stint, but you cannot put him at Charlotte for the season waiting for someone else to get hurt. He either starts the year in the rotation, starts the year on the disabled list, starts the year on a rehab stint and is up by May 1, or you release him. Which of those would you prefer?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:39 PM) None a better deal than what you can get Santana for this year. HOW THE F*** DO YOU KNOW THAT?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:32 PM) It's called depth B. But if we need depth that badly how will SP be a position of strength we can use to recoup our investment by trading away a SP?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) The FA pitchers that went before him, next year's class, and the money the Sox have available. You keep saying this while ignoring the fact that there are many middle-of-the-road-wrong-side-of-30 pitchers set up to be FA's next year.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) I believe if he can pitch he'll have ample opportunity to reach the rotation even if they sign a FA. Johnson's arbitration clock, rest for Sale and Quntana, an injury to Danks. I see, so we're going to bench one of the guys you want to trade, keep a pitcher who is ready for the bigs in the minors for no reason, and Danks (another of the guys you say we're going to trade to recoup the losses in stupidly signing Santana) is going to get hurt. In other words, we can't trade those guys because they're all terrible and have no value. I think that means we need our 2nd round pick even more!

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:18 PM) Then you can trade Paulino too. He'd have a ton of value because he's cheap. The haul you get for Quintana and Paulino should be greater than what you get in the 2nd round. Actually no we can't, because if we sign Santana, Paulino only reaches the rotation if someone gets hurt.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) I'm just saying stats can't nail down the precise value a contract should be. There are many factors and they differ for each franchise. And the facts that the White Sox are somewhat deep with potential SP contributors, the White Sox don't on paper need an additional SP to start the season, and an expensive SP signing will likely not be the thing that puts the WHite Sox over the top into the playoffs next year all combine to make your idea completely terrible for this franchise.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) When a formula fails as miserably as it did in Dunn's case it's time to be ore than skeptical of the formula. Like yours did when you advocated Hamilton? And frankly, that's a better comparison than the one you're making right now. A big money signing that makes no sense for the team and would screw them for the next several years even if things went well? Sign Marty Up.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 03:52 PM) You seriously comparing the Bears D in that last super bowl to this Seattle D? LOL Advanced DVOA stats have this Seattle D ranked higher than the 2000 Ravens. No, I'm comparing "rain in Miami" to "Snow in New Jersey". No need to get that defensive dude.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 03:52 PM) After the Dunn signing I have no faith in predictive stats. So you're pulling reasons to sign people out of you a**? Or you're just suggesting the ones that sound the dumbest?

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 03:51 PM) Even if it's a catcher? How much confidence do we have in the development of that catcher?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 03:51 PM) That's a far bigger risk to this franchise than giving up a 2nd round pick. Since we both agree that the Sox have no chance in 2014 it makes no sense to pitch him. Keep Sale healthy for when it matters. Except for the fact that not pitching him kills the work we've done building up his arm the last 2 seasons. I think you should go shoot chris sale in the leg. It would help the white sox's future as much as any of your other ideas.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) No. Deal Quintana if need be or Danks when he makes his come back. But the whole point of signing someone to be a starting pitcher is, as you say..."The starting pitching depth on this team is vastly overrrated". For that to be possible, it relies on the White Sox winding up with a glut of starting pitching depth, to the point where they have more starters than slots again. Why then would we sign an additional pitcher? We don't need it based on the depth that makes your trade make sense.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 03:46 PM) Adam Dunn was a bad signing that WAR never alerted anyone to. Ervin Santana would be a bad signing that every single stat you can come up with would alert you to.