Balta1701

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SI's Heyman floats a list of likely people to be traded. #'s 1 and 2 are fairly familiar.

SI's Heyman floats some names of the level the Marlins will be looking for.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 09:50 AM) Good lord. Nevermind. I was trying to ask a serious question here, but between yours and BS's answers, I guess I shouldn't waste my time. For all the talk of wanting to get past hyperbole and rhetoric, that is exactly what I got here. Only the first sentence was non-serious. The second sentence was not. The biggest motivation for torture throughout history is and has always been to convince a person being tortured to tell you exactly what you want to hear. Whether it's some bit of information you want confirmed, or its wanting a confession to a crime you're convinced a person did, that has always been what torture has been most effective at. And, in many cases, because that is what torture is most effective at...if you believe that a person has information about an imminent terrorist attack, whether or not you're right, if you torture them, you are going to get information about an imminent terrorist attack, because that is what it will take to stop the torture. And you will act on that information whether or not it's accurate, and you will possibly wind up helping the attack happen by wasting resources. As I pointed out, the Army field manual offers a detailed description of an actual appropriate and effective interrogation process. If a person is captured, they pretty much expect to be tortured, so they can prepare mentally for that. If you actually try to outmaneuver them mentally, you can break them much, much easier, without resorting to violence, because that is simply what works.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 09:44 AM) I think we should all keep in mind that this may end up meaning absolutely nothing. The team now has Uribe locked in for $4.5M for 2008, and I'd suspect they are still looking to deal. Uribe is the backup plan. He may or may not be the starting SS. So in other words, we still know nothing. Has anyone answered my question yet as to whether or not any sort of trade prohibition, as one would get with a free agent, applies for a player who's option you decline but who's contract you renegotiate before the FA period starts?

QUOTE(Markbilliards @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 09:33 AM) I'm just disappointed because this probably means we're signing Hunter for a billion dollars. I really wanted Owens to get a shot. That's actually still possible...if the Crede trade discussions come somehow to fruition. The lineup with Hunter still needs a leadoff hitter unless you think Danny can handle that job, and we know what kind of guy Ozzie likes at that spot in his order. And while I don't like the money and years, it's hard to think that a 3b/LF/CF/RF of Fields/Owens/Hunter/Dye is not going to be more productive both offensively and defensively than a set of Crede/Fields/Owens/Dye.

QUOTE(thomsonmi @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 09:20 AM) The Score and Fox Sports also confirming. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7418304 $4.5 million for one year. We did actually decline and renegotiate, saving $500,000. If that's the case...can he still be used as trade material? What are the rules for trades if you renegotiate a player's options? If you sign a guy as a FA you can't trade him until the middle of the next season, does anyone know what rule applies here?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 09:18 AM) Because so many teams are going to knock down his door and woo him with cash, right? I'll bet the market is dying for a guy like Juan Uribe! IF the Vizquel deal set the market for weak hitting shortstops, then yes, it would appear that there was actually more money out there for Uribe as a FA than what his option said we would pay him, and so we'd have had to buy him out to pay him more than his option called for.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 08:28 AM) My point is, what IS more effective? I never have stated the only way to get anything done is to torture someone. I want to know what the most effective way to get information out of people is and why aren't we using it? We have studies that say torture doesn't work, so what are the studies saying is working? Why would would the US be dumb enough to torture people if something else worked better, and didn't violate the Geneva conventions? Once again back to my example, what would be the most effective way to get information out of someone to prevent a terror attack? Because it's easier and more manly, and because the people who signed the Geneva conventions were weak p*&&ies.. And because, a lot of times, getting at the truth isn't what we want; we want to hear the answer we want to hear. In most cases, I'd say the evidence strongly suggests that the non-violent methods, as outlined in the army field manuals, handbooks, and rules, work far better for extracting actual information. If you're asking for an entire procedure that works better, there are all the details you want. You can start training at your leisure.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 07:43 AM) exactly....fielding percentage is so horridly overrated.... rob neyer wrote a really good article on espn insider about this years gold gloves....i can't reasonably believe that people are willing to give the ROY to tulowitzski over braun because of his defense , but still wont vote tulo for gold glove? Well, that might say something more about how bad Braun is than how good Tulo is.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 7, 2007 -> 08:44 AM) Levine reported that the Sox are still looking at trade possibilities (Everett, Hu, Aybar, etc.), but they will pick up the option if no trade is worked out. Makes sense. After that contract Vizquel got, it's really hard to justify letting Juan walk, even as a trade chip. If we threw in $2 million of his contract it seems like someone might actually take him if Vizquel set the going rate.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 07:05 PM) Oh my, Schilling? That's my first reaction, and while I love me some Schilling, I have always said he should man up and name some names if he really is opposed. Maybe it'll be Frank Thomas? Doubt it. We'll have to wait and see but that's very, very interesting. At least from the description gave, it does sound like Thomas...person not suspected of juicing but outspoken on the issue. Probably wouldn't surprise me at all if Mitchell wanted to know if Thomas would pass along anything he'd heard back in the day.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 06:11 PM) It seems that maybe a 3-way deal could be worked out with the Sox giving up Crede to the Yankees, Cabrera to the Sox, and everything else to the Marlins. The Yankees are not helping someone else get Cabrera.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 05:49 PM) Wow, that is a crazy stat. Clearly then, the solution is ARod.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 04:38 PM) Interesting story on the accuracy of polls 1 year before elections for the Presidency. Short version of the story: for Dems, the person leading 1 year out almost never wins the nomination. For the GOP, the leader 1 year out almost always does. Why you'd look at only national polls and not Iowa/NH is beyond me.

For now I'll just stick this in this thread:

SI's Heyman: Miguel Cabrera officially on trading block.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 03:56 PM) Omar Vizquel is going to sign a 1 year $5.5 million contract with SF. Considering his age and his 2007, Uribe's option is looking better and better. Maybe, just maybe, a trade market for Juan just opened?

So that's Johan's lifetime achievement pitching award? You win enough Cy Youngs, you graduate to the gold glove?

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 03:02 PM) You mean Crede's double that should have been a HR in Houston? No, there was a ball hit off of Garland in game 3 that bounced on the "in the park" side of the vertical yellow line in the OF. Rowand either didn't know the ground rules or didn't see where it hit, played it as a home run, and the umps treated it as a home run. Without that, maybe we win that game in 9. And I still remember that ball Crede hit in 04...

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 02:57 PM) Don Shula is intimating that should the Patriots win the Superbowl and go undefeated, Spygate should put an asterisk next to the record. ANd in case you wanted a link...

ABC

QUOTE(Texsox @ Nov 6, 2007 -> 01:43 PM) She really needs to just go away. Release the records. The fact that it's judicial watch now getting back into the anti-Clinton game will probably encourage the Clinton campaign to try even harder to lock down anything they haven't released yet.

If only baseball would listen to, um...baseball...