Balta1701

RI Justice sounds like a completely made up name. Like the mascot of the Pawtucket Red Sox or something. Pawsox hit a home run, audio plays "That's the sound of RI Justice!"

They'd probably get more backlash because it's Philadelphia, and they'd probably deserve it.

I will not give deference to someone who flat out failed at their job as badly as anyone. They have done nothing whatsoever to deserve deference.

1. For not offering any defenses, your last line offers a defense. 2. Failing to understand that $300 million was not an overpay is an indictment. 3. If Rick did not have that freedom, Rick Hahn needed to work better with ownership to make ownership understand the importance of this deal. That is exactly what a professional front office person, AJ Preller did with his ownership. If Ownership was not on board then Rick needed to get them on board. For example, I know of $40 million they could have saved this offseason if ownership was not ok with spending $300 million, $56 if you count Abreu's arbitration offer. If ownership is giving edicts like "Don't spend $300 million but $250 is ok", which are going to hurt the franchise, the General Manager needs to figure out how to work with ownership to find a way to make ownership content. We saw exactly that happen in San Diego. 4. If he did have that kind of limit and ownership could not get around it and they knew that, then every single time this organization opened their mouths this offseason about adding premium talent, they were putting their feet in their mouths. Every time they leaked confidence to people, they were lying to the people who pay their bills. That behavior would be completely unprofessional as well.

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/yoan-moncada-wants-to-stay-at-second-base/c-296665770

So your defense of the White Sox is that "I don't know how many time might he have done this", meaning you're saying that you believe it was possible that Lozano put a reasonable contract, $300 million over 10 years, out as something they would have signed more than once, all the way back in January, and the White Sox said no over and over and over again to a reasonable contract, while he waited for someone to meet it? That...would be worse. Much worse. Frankly, if they had been doing that, then Lozano was being overly nice to the White Sox by even coming back to them after the Padres put a higher offer on the table, because that's a statement that the White Sox front office is a bunch of jokes who can't recognize a fair contract when one is staring them in the face. How is it that any time I accept one of these so-called defenses it makes the White Sox look less competent?

Of course there are other details, but you're hiding behind all those. They met briefly on Monday, they didn't have a 12 hour session where they threw everything out and started negotiating from scratch to cover all those details. On Monday, they put new numbers down in structures they had discussed previously, with all the other topics covered previously, and by not accepting something along the lines of Lozano's structure, the White Sox left Lozano no reason to come back to them when another team did. Lozano's side gave the White Sox a reasonable offer and the White Sox said no while someone else said yes. Regardless of everything else that was discussed in previous weeks, that's what happened.

Fair enough. All I know is that we have been told repeatedly that Lozano gave all 3 teams the $300 million number and the White Sox did not accept it, that doesn't give us the order it happened.

There's literally no evidence of animosity on the part of Machado's side. Lozano met with them on Monday. Both sides presented an offer. Lozano did the work of his client quite well, he kept multiple teams in the running and extracted a fair agreement from one of them. If the White Sox were angry at Machado's side for not coming down earlier and they lost the player because they needed to throw a fit rather than accepting Lozano's offer...well frankly that would also be a indictment of the professionalism of the Chicago White Sox management. It's rather amazing that people consider remarks like that to be defenses of them.

Take a look at how it went down and ask yourself what the evidence says. If he was hamstrung by the organization - well he needed to work harder to make sure his ownership was on board, that's part of his job. If he couldn't handle a negotiation as well as buying a Kia...then judge for yourself whether he's any good at this.

The entire offseason I said that if Rick Hahn was a professional negotiator, you wait until Machado's side comes down from whatever their original ask was into a reasonable territory and then you say yes. When they say "Will you offer 10/$325", the correct response is not "No", the correct response is "If we do that are you in a White Sox uniform today"? That is basic sales and basic negotiating. That is how any professional agent will handle themselves, they will give you an offer and if you say no, you risk someone else saying yes. If no one says yes, and they're that close to done, they would put another offer on the table then, but if someone said yes, it's over. If it's a fair contract it doesn't matter if you've bid against yourself to get it done. The Padres literally bid against themselves for the last $20 million or whatever, once they had passed the White Sox they could have just stood pat, but they met Machado's asking price by saying yes, and no one is giving them any problems over their bidding against themselves to do it. So either, the White Sox were so obsessed with not negotiating against themselves that it cost them the player, or they really wouldn't go past demanding him at a bargain and were willing to lose him if his price wasn't a bargain. I have my preference for what I believe but that's how you handle a negotiation, those are the 2 options.

It totally fits with what I'm saying and requires no bad blood. Lozano said "Will you go to 10/$300 million". The White Sox said "No but here's what we will do". The Padres said "Yes". You don't have to go back to the other team in that scenario and it requires no bad blood. They said no. They had their chance and turned it down.

Because the White Sox said no to the number that Lozano gave and the Padres said yes. The $300 million offer was not a number the Padres came up with, it was a proposal from Machado's side.

FWIW, those numbers do not include $25 million/year spent on Robert. That money is now off the books.

They did get a chance to match, that is a poor summary of how it went down. Lozano on Monday gave all 3 teams the $300 million number as something they would sign if the team accepted. That was a drop from whatever their ask was earlier in the offseason - they dropped it into a reasonable range and were waiting for one team to say yes. If 2 had said yes, then they might have negotiated. 1 team said yes, the other 2 teams said no. They had a chance to say yes at that offer.

Said he was wrong and I haven't seen him since IIRC last Tuesday or Wednesday.

The best summary I can give is that sometime about 2 weeks ago Lozano received an offer from the Padres that was higher than the White Sox's offer. I don't believe he told them what the Padres offer was, but he told both the Phillies and White Sox that there was an offer higher than the White Sox's offer. On Monday, Lozano presented all 3 teams with a number he would sign for, regardless of the earlier numbers. He said Machado would sign for a $300 million guarantee. The Phillies said this was too rich for them. The White Sox increased their offer too the 250/8 that we heard, but would go no farther. The Padres said "Welcome to San Diego". One of those was the correct reply - if you bid against yourself by $10 million, that's not a big amount to get the contract actually done.

If he attached something of value with him sure, but not for even a return comparable to Call, not with him limited to 1b/DH. There just aren't teams that need one of those right now, they're too easy to come by in the offseason. Wait until some team has a 1b that gets hurt.

There is also an embarrassment of pitching potentially available next summer (although I expect the Yankees to take some of it). Verlander, Cole, Bumgarner, Sale just to headline.

Well I guess I was wrong when I said there was no chance the Bulls would screw up their lottery odds.

Yeah but the Phillies phanbase actually cares about their team.

With a guarantee difference that small, things like option years or an opt out would also be important.

The way he's hitting, he belongs as a top 3-4 pick unless someone gets some serious helium. He's a college player and they always draft college players in the first, they can move him rapidly, at a position of need. It's going to happen, and it's not an obviously wrong decision. You come out of this draft with a Freddie Freeman/Paul Goldschmidt, you seriously strengthen your roster for years.

Even if he turns it around and has a strong year, a multi-year extension for Abreu is a bad idea and should not even be necessary as there's not going to be a multi-year deal for him from anyone next offseason. If a team wants a multi year deal for a 1b, Goldschmidt is a FA, and Justin Smoak is also available. If he has a good year, 1 year deals will be fine. When the Sox draft Vaughn, that will also reduce their need for Abreu beyond 2020 as they'll push Vaughn rapidly.

This is more interesting than how it's presented here. Outside of Lorenzo Cain (who was, IMO, the only person in 2017 who signed for $10-$20 million per year without being an utter disaster), they had some good signings like Jhoulys Chacin and Wade Miley, who punched above their weight and provided good value. BUUUUUUUUT They also signed Boone Logan, Matt Albers, and Yovanni Gallardo, spending nearly $10 million on them. All played substantially for that team, and between them they were worth something on the order of -2 WAR, their combined ERA was somewhere over 6. I will be willing to bet that out of the garbage the White Sox signed and traded for this year they'll get a good player or two. Maybe its Herrera. Maybe it's Colome. Maybe it's both. Maybe Santana has something left in the tank, maybe Nova does. That a few people turn out successful when you sign a bunch of has-beens isn't surprising. Last year it was Soria. The real difference is the rest of the roster. The Brewers had a good enough roster that, especially with Yelich in the OF, they could afford to waste $10 million and 150 innings on guys who put up a combined ERA over 6, because the rest of their roster performed. They wasted money on Braun, Cain was expensive, they traded for a few guys, but they weren't desperate for all of those minimum payroll guys to be good. They didn't need all of those guys to succeed to win the NL Central, they succeeded in spite of those guys. If you sign 5 or 6 guys like that, a couple will have some success, but a good number will implode. The exact number of each might depend on your scouting and coaching, but that's how it goes. If your roster needs all 6 guys to succeed, a-la the 2016 White Sox for example, then it will look bad. If you have a strong roster like the Brewers, then that wasted $10 million isn't the end of the world.