Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 04:45 PM) I am not arguing a Moustakas opt out. Just pointing out Machado will get an opt out or two or three if he signs for 10 years. You wanted the Sox to sign JD Martinez. He has an opt out after year 2. It wouldn’t surprise me if Machado got one after 2 years. That would be about peak career time, and a great time to cash in even more. I will say that in a 10 year deal I would not do a 2 year opt out for Machado. That would probably be my 1 red line. I need that 3rd year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 04:37 PM) Yes. If they sign Machado, they better be able to compete right away. Personally reading that he grew up dreaming of the Yankees andhe can go enter a line up the Yankees can put together,, and the Yankees don’t have a history of being outbid, I don’t see a lot of hope he will sign with a team that maybe wins 75 games in 2018. But there is a chance. He would probably demand to play SS. Unless he is just awful there this season, that shouldn’t be a deal breaker. But the more you hear, the more remote the Sox chances seem, even if they are willing to pony up the cash. If this team isn't a legit wild card contender in 2019 then Rick Hahn seriously failed in his player evaluation and player development.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 04:30 PM) You’re far too optimistic on the 2020 thing imo and having that type of high paying player with an opt out at the start of the contention window is yet another variable that makes roster planning that much more difficult. If you're worried about having Machado with an opt-out in 2021 and that might hurt our 2022 world series chances in a thread about how we should sign Mike Moustakas now when he'll be 33 that year...well I think that basically is my point.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 03:18 PM) That’s actually a great point for all the Machado advocates. What if he demands an opt out clause after year 3 (2021)? That’s the exact time in which the Sox contention window should be starting to peak, theoretically at least. I'm totally ok with that. If he opts out then we suddenly have money to spend and who knows if our needs will be the same thing at that point? And if we've already won the 2020 world series like we should, then we'll have done our job.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2018 -> 03:03 PM) You would have a problem with the White Sox trading for Trout once you saw what it cost them in prospects. How is that relevant?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 10:32 PM) It is the biggest flaw in the rebuild. If this team isn't willing to spend what it takes to bring in the kind of guys that can actually push this team over the top, because they've decided they just wont spend that much, then you're right. If they're not willing to spend money when they have plenty of money to spend, then you're right - they should have just kept spending $110 million a year and been satisfied with 4th place and 75 wins. Hell, this year they'd probably have moved up to 3rd after the Royals fall back.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 08:50 PM) You’re equating the Astros’ share of Verlander’s remaining contract to Machado’s upcoming contract? Seriously? They took on >$20 million a year to pick up a top of the league pitcher. I don't care how the White Sox do it. There's nothing wrong with doing so in a trade. If the Angels want to make Mike Trout available am I going to be mad that we had to trade for the player that put us over the top rather than signing a free agent? God no. The Sox can make their call about what guy fits them best after they play this season, but this piddling "Mike Moustakas/Todd Frazier/Jeff Samardzija is good enough!" thinking is what we needed to throw in the trash after 2015. We know how this game works out.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 08:45 PM) How so? What big dogs have the Astros signed over the last 5+ years of their rebuild? They didn't sign him, they just absorbed his contract in a trade.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 08:43 PM) Who said I don’t believe in the rebuild? Not believing they will sign Machado equates to not believing in the rebuild? I absolutely believe that they will make a significant splash in free agency in the coming years, I just don’t believe they are contenders for signing Machado. If he's the guy they decide makes them the best there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to land him. They could readily land him and Kimbrel and it wouldn't break the bank. They may well go into next offseason and decide that Blackmon out in CF is a better fit and fills a bigger need or something like that, if they got great years from Anderson and Sanchez I can see how that could occur. But "The White Sox will not land the biggest fish" is an argument against the entire concept of the rebuild. Doing this allows us to stop piddling around with the Cabreras and LaRoches, stop having to fill 7 needs at once, and instead have to fill 2 needs with the top dogs. The guys who shouldn't flop.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 08:40 PM) If you don’t believe in the rebuild, that’s your prerogative. The Sox have already done many things that would be deemed out of character for this front office including trading away Q and sale for high impact prospects and signing Robert. I see no value in signing Moustakas as if he kick starts the rebuild into high gear. I think they are in the game for the big money players next season If the White Sox are not willing to be in the game for the top dogs next year then there was no reason for this rebuild.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 07:17 PM) CNN Town Hall Chadwick Boseman vs. Michael B. Jordan, done in character. Do the suits appear halfway through?

QUOTE (Brian @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 07:13 AM) Co-sign the greatness of Black Panther. KillMonger definitely one of my fav Marvel movie villains. Jordan owned every single scene he was in. Could hardly take eyes off of him. That was just an incredible job. The only thing I really felt myself missing from this movie? I wanted them to figure out a way for Killmonger and T'Challa to be in a room alone with a scene to themselves for a short bit, before the big fight at the end. No idea how to get that in there, but those characters were so well thought out and had such different perspectives that I wanted to see something between them that wasn't a fight.

2 weeks of proposal writing and this silly deal concept hasn't happened? I'll just be content with that.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 11:11 AM) Lauri had a really strong game in the post. His 3 ball isn't falling right now and it was nice to see them get the ball to them down low. Didn't see the 4th so can't comment on that, but for 1st 3 quarter Lauri played really well. Lavine is explosive and is getting better every night. I truly believe the NBA should find a way to rig the lottery to reward the Bulls. Absolute sick what a lot of teams do. Yes, you can tank and that is fine and good, but going out of your way to sit "healthy" players is just crappy for the sport. I'm a fan of the NBA and what teams are doing is just bad for the league. Hell, in a league with the Warriors I think you can make a good case that the #5 seeds in the playoffs are better off tanking right now. That's the joy of the superteam.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 10:49 AM) Even given that, that was in 2012. The last time the White Sox successfully developed a starting pitcher was 2012. In 2016, people were still talking about how the White Sox had a great record of developing pitching and we could continue to be competitive by developing that pitching and trading it for hitting. They hadn't developed a starter for 5 years at that point, and no Rodon didn't count because he was still struggling and now we've hit an injury wall. Hopefully this changes with the influx of guys we just brought in and maybe Hansen is the draftee who turns the tide, but "developing pitching" hasn't been a regular strength of this franchise in nearly a decade. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 10:54 AM) If this is true, the rebuild is a complete waste of time The fact that the White Sox couldn't develop any pitching was one of the great many things that sabotaged the 2015 and 2016 rosters. It absolutely needs to change right now. At least now they have some horses, but until a few guys turn their talent into big league success, we should be skeptical.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 10:43 AM) Quintana seemed to be developed rather nicely Even given that, that was in 2012. The last time the White Sox successfully developed a starting pitcher was 2012. In 2016, people were still talking about how the White Sox had a great record of developing pitching and we could continue to be competitive by developing that pitching and trading it for hitting. They hadn't developed a starter for 5 years at that point, and no Rodon didn't count because he was still struggling and now we've hit an injury wall. Hopefully this changes with the influx of guys we just brought in and maybe Hansen is the draftee who turns the tide, but "developing pitching" hasn't been a regular strength of this franchise in nearly a decade.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 10:36 AM) I agree with this. Obviously it depends on value, but if 3 WAR players are signing for $8.5 million, grabbing a bargain makes a ton of sense. At the very least, they can be very flippable at the deadline. Obviously, I have no idea who is available for what price, but bargains that can help you win down the road shouldn't be ignored. Chances are, the opportunity so many may be available might not ever happen again. My counterpoint to this idea is still, 100%, play the kids. Take a look at the 3 positions where we might sign someone right now: 3b DH CF Right now, we've got Leury, who put up 1.1 WAR in 1/2 a season, as the possible CF. We've got Yolmer, who put up 2.1 WAR in 530 PAs, at 3b. We've got Delmonico, who put up 1.0 WAR in 166 PAs, as a possible DH who will rotate into the field until the thing is called up. We've then got other guys behind them like Cordell who might step up and grab those positions too. In other words, why would you spend $8.5 million on a guy to put up 3 WAR when you might very well have 3 WAR players in your system who are first-year arb guys or earlier?

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 11:19 AM) Unfortunately I think most front offices are fairly smart about valuing these guys now (especially since mid-level guys seem to get max deals), and the days of trading decent vets for a pick are gone. I think he was asking more about getting pick like 5 in exchange for picks 9 and 14.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 09:27 PM) I'd be more pissed if they are not taking advantage of opportunities of buying prospects whether that be trades or IFA. I don't really want them saddled with long term deals with FA yet. Next offseason? That's exactly what they should be doing. Saddle up on the long term deals, lock and load. 2018 should be the year of shaking things out. Try out the guys who need tryouts, limit yourself to as few of holes as possible. Make your major splash before 2019. Leave a little bit of room to do damage in 2020 if needed, but whatever hole we say is the worst hole on the roster, next offseason we should fill that. Maybe the worst 2 - this team could easily afford 2 huge signings next offseason. Then roll with it, and our window is 2019-2022.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 08:26 PM) If the Sox do not open up the checkbook next offseason then I would fully expect the pitchforks to come out. I might light my pitchfork on fire.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 07:23 PM) Great points above. I feel like our window will be open much longer than the cubs’. The waves of arms will just keep coming. See, I disagree. I think that by 2020, we're going to be feeling pressure to do exactly the kind of move the Cubs did with Torres....and it will be the right move. We'll be sitting there with a 95 win team saying "What do we need to win the world series" and the answer will be "We're going to have to trade Cease to bring back this one huge piece" or something like that. And it's going to be the right move too, but it's going to cost us the ability to stay in things when 2022 or 2023 come around. We'll have about a 3-4 year window, with 2020 being the sweet spot of Moncada and Jiminez still cheap but enough talent to make trades.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 07:54 PM) It means the White Sox are going to have a very low team payroll in 2018. And it also means the 2019 team payroll will be even lower. If they have a lower payroll in 2019 than in 2018 you may brag and consider yourself vindicated because I'm going to be seriously pissed off too. I do not believe that will happen at all.

QUOTE (35thstreetswarm @ Feb 12, 2018 -> 06:15 PM) A lot of truth in that - look, the Cubs won one WS, and I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be overjoyed if the Sox did the same with the group of prospects coming up. But I don't know that the Cubs have done quite enough to spare them the level of criticism I reserve for other teams -- like, say the Royals, or, say, the White Sox -- that have accomplished pretty much the same thing. If Eloy Jimenez wins World Series MVP, I fully expect to party deliriously through November and be back to whining about White Sox moves the following July. If the Cubs go on to build the multi-title dynasty some predicted back in 2015, then maybe I'll give them the "Patriots treatment" or "Blackhawks treatment" (i.e., the benefit of every reasonable doubt when it comes to personnel moves). But I don't think they're there yet. Ask yourself this. Say the Cubs won their first title and then said "we're going to keep developing these guys". Would they seriously be better off than they were last year? Un-do that deal, give them back Jiminez at AA. Now their pitching staff going into 2018 is Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Chatwood, Montgomery. Does that rotation scare you? Even with all the talent in their big leagues squad, aren't you seriously thinking that both the Brewers and the Cardinals can compete with them? Yes, in 2019 Jiminez would be a monster for them, alongside a 35 year old Lester and with Bryant, Baez, Hendricks, Russell, all in their 2nd years of arbitration. That could still be a decent team, but as the arb costs go up for these guys the money available to add pitching is going down. The lesson here is that even when you do things right, the costs to stay on top for more than a season or two are huge. The Royals won their title and then haven't been back to the playoffs. The Cubs won their title and then just to make the playoffs last year, after a sub.500 first half, they had to cash in their last chips. The Astros started last year with a $132 million payroll, they're up to $149 to start the year this year, and former Cy Young and their 2nd best pitcher Dallas Keuchel hits free agency next year. The moral of the story here is - when you've got a team that can win a title, win a title. The way baseball is playing right now, staying on top for 3-4 years requires extremely high costs in both talent and money. Be ready to pay the price to get on top and then worry about the other years later. They won't be cheap, but you've got two choices; pay that price or rebuild again. And I don't think anyone would, in the Cubs' position, try to rebuild right now, even though guys are getting expensive.

Well S***. That's a fairly substantial amount of stuff.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 11, 2018 -> 04:48 PM) Darvish doesn't have draft compensation attached to him. Arrieta does - the Cubs will get a pick back if he signs elsewhere. And that's a silly concept anyway. If the Cubs are that worried about a 2nd or 3rd round pick that they're going after a pitcher that they like less, then their priorities are totally screwed up. They went after Darvish because they wanted starting pitching help and they picked the pitcher they preferred. Whatever their reason was, they seriously preferred darvish to Arrieta.