Balta1701

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 07:30 PM) Aaron Brooks. Alex Smith? Alex Smith was a #1 pick and a starter.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:47 PM) I'd love to roll with Smith/Narvaez next year. I get it, but with as young of a rotation as we'll be running the next 2 years I think there's a solid case for spending money on a veteran at that position too.

Todd Frazier being a decent player is not the point. Todd Frazier not being a solid upgrade from what any other team has at those positions, and Todd Frazier basically being paid his market value for a 1 year deal, is what makes Frazier worth very little in trade.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:50 PM) I am in the camp that doesn't see the rest of the list of players after Nate Jones having much value. I think a lot of these guys are back next year because there is no line of teams that really wants to trade for them. Because I don't see their values going up, I'm in the camp that you have to trade Frazier at the least for whatever you get for him. If nothing else, we have a guy who can crew that position right now who I want to see play there for a full season. As much as I hate to say it, and mind you I HATE to say it, there's less motivation to move Cabrera because there's no one pushing that position who might be worth anything of value, so you might as well hold onto him and see if someone gets hurt on another team and they suddenly think he can fill in.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:44 PM) I think you're overthinking it, teams trade for platoon guys and bench pieces at the deadline all the time. I'm not saying we could trade Alvarez for much, but if a team needs a power surge at the deadline we could get a couple of prospects for him if he's still hitting righties well and carrying the same .800 OPS. Even if we could get just a young UTL bench guy or a good bullpen arm under control for 6 years for him I'd consider it a win. Guys like Chris Coghlan, Aaron Hill, Brandon Guyer, Melvin Upton, and Kelly Johnson all got traded for something at the deadline this past year. I'd take the odds that Alvarez could be traded for an interesting bullpen arm and a loto ticket 19 year old then Avi putting up a .750+ OPS. I just think little moves like this type and always churning the roster are necessary in a full rebuild. No need to keep watching the same guys fail, throw as many pieces at the wall as possible and see what sticks. Unfortunately, Avi Garcia is a guy who this organization has control of. Our job now is to watch guys this organization has control of fail - until one of them succeeds, they develop someone better at that position, or they develop enough other good people at other positions where that glaring weakness becomes important. Avi is, unfortunately, exactly the kind of guy we need to be targeting right now, whether we like it or not. And I have no issue with signing Pedro Alvarez. Just be clear about what he is. He's a dime a dozen player. Aaron Hill, for one check, was traded for a 27 year old with an ERA over 6, a 20 year old in high A with an OPS of .516, and the Red Sox sent along cash while they were at it. I don't consider those type of trades to be bringing back anything of value and that's what Alvarez would bring back. The odds of Garcia being a solid MLB hitter at age 25 are similar to the odds of Alvarez bringing back anything better than that. We should still sign a DH like Alvarez and we should still trade Frazier and Cabrera for whatever garbage we can get for them. That should leave us playing guys in the OF who have some talent but who have busted elsewhere and can be had for cheap, because 1 out of every several hundred of them might turn into Jose Bautista and when there's no downside we may as well play as many of them as we could. Like it or not, Avi Garcia is an example of one of those guys. You can't let "I'm sick of watching him on my team" impact that decision. He is more than likely to fail miserably, but he is under our control already. Play him for another year then check out where you are next offseason. Worst case scenario he fails miserably again and the White Sox are rebuilding in 2018. Guess what...the White Sox are a rebuilding team in 2018.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:21 PM) Which of those sluggers play 3B? Don't think it's fair to just lump him into the slugger category. Also, a team that trades for Frazier now would likely get a draft pick if/when he left. I think a prospect in the 75 to the 125 range would be fair value. The question is what contenders actually need help at 3B right now. That's the bigger concern IMO than the presence of other sluggers on the market. If you can name a contender that has a 3b opening I'm listening. AL East: Boston (Panda lots of money, already cleaned them out), Bal (Machado), NYY (Headley), Tor (Donaldson) AL Central: Cle (Jose Ramirez worth more fWAR than Frazier last year), KCR (Moustakas), Det (Castellanos and they are way over the Luxury tax line). AL West: Hou (Bregman), Tex (Beltre), Sea (Seager), Los Angeles Angels (fine he's an upgrade for them but they have 0 top 100 prospects). NL East: Mets (Wright - maybe at best, depending on Health), Was (Rendon), Phi (Franco) NL Central: Cubs (MVP), Pirates (Freese/Kang), STL (Gyorko) NL West: Col (Arenado), LAD (Turner), Ari (Jake Lamb), SFG (Duffy, Gillaspie, and Nunez at 3b produced more fWAR than Frazier last year). Basically, he's a slight upgrade for Los Angeles, Detroit, San Francisco, Boston, the Mets, and the Yankees, but literally none of them "need" him until someone gets hurt and several of them won't be adding money obviously. Every one of them has a 3b starter right now. Every one of them could go after Valbuena to add some depth at that spot if they were worried about it and just on dollars it should cost them less than Frazier. If the season unfolds and Headley becomes available, the Yankees would likely give him up for some minor league filler. I think he'd be a reasonable fit for KCR - could play 1b and 3b and DH for them and add power in the middle of their lineup, but he's not worth a top 100 prospect for them.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:05 PM) Agreed. Frazier still has value and I think could net a low end top 100 prospect. I would not give up a top 100 prospect for Todd Frazier with the number of bats available on the FA market and their seemingly dropping prices. I find it entirely reasonable to have him after Jennings in terms of trade value. I do agree he would appear to be above Gonzalez. Edit: Following this same logic I could find Abreu lower on that list than #3 as well.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 09:00 PM) Lol what world do you live in? Avi can't put up a .700 OPS and he has just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who just put up an OPS over .800? Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware Alvarez is pretty crappy, but Avi doesn't even belong in the majors. Sorry, but 1,500 AB's is more than enough time to prove your worth. And Avi has proven nothing more than worthless. That's not what I said. I said Avi has as good of a chance of being a decent hitter as Alvarez does of being worth something at the deadline. If Pedro Alvarez remains who he was last year - an .800 OPS because he is strong against righties and a .670 OPS hitter against lefties - a platoon DH who is a crappy fielder and only puts up an .825 OPS because he is playing 90% of his time against righties and is still owed a couple million dollars isn't worth jack squat at the deadline. For him to be worth something at the deadline, he'd need to have a good year against lefties, a better year defensively, or put up a 1.000+ OPS against righties. All of those are possible but unlikely.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:57 PM) Saladino better be trotted out there for 500+ PA this year or I'm going to be pissed. I'm still not convinced he's not a 2-3 WAR starter at 3B. He should have played more last year after they were out of it in July as usual. It sure seems like a lot of the answer to why this didn't happen is injury-related, hence why I keep including that caveat in my statements about playing him.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 07:30 PM) If it were up to me guys like Lawrie and Avi wouldn't be on the team and we'd take a shot on guys who have the potential to have real value...but that's obviously not going to happen unfortunately. And let's not forget that Abreu can always DH more with plenty of AB's between the rest of the IF positions. Not like Lawrie and Saladino are the type of guys that need to be played everyday, we kinda know what they are already. But yeah I agree, Saunders will most likely find a multi year deal somewhere better than with us next year. I have no issue with Avi getting a good portion of the season this year - he's cheaper than these guys and probably has just as much of a chance at becoming a decent hitter as Pedro Alvarez does of becoming worth something at the deadline. Lawrie's problem is he only has 1 year of control, which means even if he got off to a great start he'd be nothing but a quick, cheap deadline deal. Saladino I have no idea what he will be long term and I want him playing every day. If he's an average MLB player (2 WAR, strong defense, weak to average bat) that's a useful find and I would be content with him playing 3b for a couple years until we find something better.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:24 PM) Nothing recently really. Only one I can think of recently is Schaub in Houston but it didn't last long There have been "nonterrible" ones, hell the most recent Pats backup to do this - Matt Cassel - went 10-5 with the Chiefs in 2 different seasons, but I can't remember someone doing this and becoming a long term QB for a title contender since seemingly forever. Yes, guys do develop behind other QBs, but then moing to another franchise and becoming a success story...

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 07:14 PM) Pedro Alvarez Cody Asche Franklin Gutierrez Adam Lind Brandon Moss Colby Rasmus Michael Saunders Luis Valbuena I'd take a gamble on any 1 of those guys. Only need to catch lightning in a bottle for 3 1/2 months to turn them into something useful long term. I would consider going after 2 guys on that list (add Carter as well). Rasmus and Alvarez or Rasmus and Carter should be fits for this team once all is done. Valbuena would only make sense if they moved Lawrie or if in fact Saladino's back issues really were thought to be significant. I can't buy that Michael Saunders won't find a role somewhere before the end of Jan.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 04:49 PM) I still don't think it does. Garrapolo plays for the Bears for peanuts for 1 year. Then they either have to franchise him at $20M+ or they have to give him a long term deal that probably starts at Osweiler money. And if he's bad in that year for the Bears, then they've given up a 1 and a 4 on a team that's starved for depth for a single year of a bad QB. Realistically, the Bears only long-term answer at QB is through the draft... The Bears giving up the 4th pick somehow for JimG seems like the Jags taking Bortles to me. Seemed like an overdraft to lots of people at the time but people justified it by saying "If you've gotten your QB it's worth the price". Both are probably true. That's too high of a price to pay, but if you are in a position where you have to gamble to save your job - taking no action at the QB spot or drafting a QB gives them a 100% chance of being fired while trading for G gives them a 75% chance of being fired, you do the math. Can anyone give me a recent example of a team signing or trading for another team's backup QB to be a starter and having it work out well? I just scrolled through the top 25 QBs this week and the only one that might describe is Tyrod Taylor.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 04:31 PM) I don't see how Pace or Fox survive a 6-10 or 7-9 season in 2017. It is going to be hard avoiding that without a better QB. If that's true then they have to bring in a veteran QB, regardless of wehther or not it's the right move for the franchise. JimG or Romo, I think there's a couple other plausibles but that would be the reality.

Planning for "Deploraball" Donald Trump inauguration celebration struggling over issue of whether to mark the occasion with Nazi salutes. Whitefish, Montana about to have to endure march of armed Neo-Nazis through the city in protest of Jews, Jew-owned businesses, and their supporters. Apparently this resulting from it being Richard Spencer's hometown/family's hometown. Post online earlier this month featured list of names and addresses of Jews living in that community.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) Honestly I think McCutchen's trade market is holding this whole deal up. And until they make that move they don't know what prospects they could afford to give up for Quintana and they don't know what their salary situation is. It's an entirely reasonable issue - they can probably get that deal done, but it will take work.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 06:23 PM) If we can't have Meadows, then I want both Keller and Newman as well as Glasnow. If they're content on keeping Bell, then I would want Hayes and another. If they're not trading Meadows then they HAVE to move McCutchen right? Because otherwise there simply isn't anywhere for Meadows to play this year, and whatever they do with Mccutchen fundamentally changes the names we could put on the list.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 05:03 PM) Good for Houston. They can be content with losing. This one kinda pisses me off as a baseball fan. I don't like that Houston is saying "we've improved and that's good enough to challenge the Rangers" when Cleveland and Boston are saying "that trophy would look pretty". Yeah, the Rangers got ridiculously lucky in 1 run games last year, yes the Astros have improved, but that Rangers team is still strong, they've got Lucroy the full year, and Houston was far, far healthier than Texas last year, which you could see reversing easily. And then the Ms are still making their moves. I don't like seeing a team that I think should be competing for world series chances saying hopefully the wild card is available.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 05:50 PM) If so, does Meadows HAVE to be the centerpiece? I think the Bucs could get it done without him...either Glasnow + Bell + a couple of their other top tier guys could do it as a 4 pack, or if they got a strong return for McCutchen whatever came back for him could do it as well. I don't think they'd be willing to do it without moving McCutchen though, based on the talk over the past week.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 27, 2016 -> 03:21 PM) Is it really that 2016 was such a bad year or is this gonna be the norm as there are more and more celebrities nowadays, and they are all getting older. I don't know how you quantify this...but yeah I think 2016 seems like a huge outlier compared to previous years.

via GIPHY

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 04:47 PM) Yeah, that's a good point, but I think the optics of those two deals may be impacting things more than actual liquidity. There are teams that have the assets and that actually should be in a position to move them, but I feel like they are refusing to pay the same price because of the optics. It may just be a matter of waiting them out a bit longer while they try to play it cute. At the least - the fact that we've dismantled the systems of two teams means that there are fewer competitors providing a need to get something done right now. The Red Sox got their offer on the table and did it because if they waited, the Nats were going to get theirs done. The Nats got their offer on the table and pulled the trigger because if they didn't, the Cardinals were going to swoop in there. Once the Cards missed out on Eaton, they grabbed fowler within 2 days because they couldn't leave that position unfilled. If the Pirates and Astros are convinced the other doesn't have a competitive deal on the table, then they can wait on the White Sox.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 25, 2016 -> 02:38 PM) Hahn cannot wait to trade Quintana. If they wait until the deadline they may not find a suitor and then you're trying to move him in a free agent market overloaded with very good starters. A year from now they won't get half of what would be considered a low return now. Either they deal him this offseason or they keep him for the next 4 years. QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 25, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) Couldn't disagree more. It's all speculation dude. Half a year of Samdazjiezyeahhh got the top SS prospect in the game, the number four prospect in baseball at the time. No one knows what we could get now, or at the deadline, or next year, or in three years. Only thing that isn't speculative is this: if Quintana keeps pitching the way he has - he'll always be in demand and will always command a haul. QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 25, 2016 -> 03:00 PM) Except the free agent market is a little more saturated with pitchers next year plus the changes in team compensation probably decreases the chances he would get traded next offseason if he's still around. The Trade Deadline probably wouldnt happen either. Alot of these guys they are probably asking for will be playing. We've already seen how hesitant teams are to trade players that are contributing on the club in the middle of the season. So the previous post was correct. They need to trade him now if they actually want to. One thing I'm thinking about right now is that the White Sox have already taken 2 franchises that think they can win right now...and gutted them. So, there were teams willing to go all-in and make a move, and teams that had the resources to do so, and 2 of those teams are now gone. So now...we're left with a set of teams that should still make moves, but they're more hesitant to do so. So, maybe we're also running into a demand shortage. We've tapped out 2 teams, leaving only a handful of teams who even have the resources to make such a move. If that were the case, then waiting on a few drafts, signings, and minor league breakouts, maybe even combined with a major league surprise or injury or two, could be required before anyone steps up to pay this price.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) Lol take it easy! I just don't get the hype. Lopez I get the hype. I've went back and watched Glasnow's appearances on MLB.tv and don't get it. He's absolutely wild, but he's also been basically unhittable on anything in the zone.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 11:17 AM) I don't really see a great course of action for bulls, but I'd rather they keep adding because I can't take three rebuilding teams at once. Got my dad a really nice Hawks sweater for XMas since it's nice that there's one quality franchise in Chicago. (Yes, deliberate).