Balta1701

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 04:04 PM) Abreu is an interesting case, as his contract/team control has maybe a one-year overlap with the Sox's rebuilding process now (assuming that they don't go scorched-earth). If he can stay healthy this coming season, I'd be in favor of giving him a very generous three-year extension. A healthy Jose is a real boost to this lineup. I'm iffy on that - my big issue is the performance dropoff. Stepping back and considering season by season, he's gotten progressively worse each year he's been here, and we haven't gotten a good reason why. Maybe the problem in the 1st half last year was health. He's had health issues since he arrived, so we can't say "that will get better with time" because that's not how Health works. If the issue wasn't health, then we have no answer about why he is trending down or about what happened with his first half slump last year. Last thing you want to do is offer him another $60 million to extend for a couple years and then have him turn into Ryan Howard. We've got 3 years of control left on him, at the very least I'd say add another year of data to see what his bat is like next year before you talk extension. If that costs us an extra $20 million in the long term I'm ok with that, that would mean his bat recovered next year and that's a gamble I'm ok with losing a bit.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:56 PM) If the Sox deal Quintana, they may as well nuke the entire team by dealing Abreu and Eaton as well. Because it sends the message that they're not going to even try to win for another three years. It would be interesting, but I don't think that they deal Q and go the scorched-earth route. Too much money to lose at both the gate and negotiating table when the TV contract is up. I was gung ho on moving Abreu until we traded for a top flight young Cuban. I'm a little more open to holding him now unless we get a good deal for him for that reason alone.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:56 PM) I want him as well. He'll cost more than I want to pay, but salary shouldn't be a major concern for this franchise right now. They just cleared out money and will be clearing out more money. They have no one back in the Sale deal who will take over CF. Overpay him, fine.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:54 PM) @BNightengale The #WhiteSox getting besieged with calls now for Jose Quintana, but the Sox are expected to step back, catch breath, before dealing him. Apparently, trading Sale was too much work for the Front Office, they need a break. I'm not mad about them "catching their breath". Quintana is a different type of asset from Sale. Different price, different peak level, different control length. He's a better fit for some teams than others. You could go and say "we'll take that offer you put on the table for Sale right now" and if you did that, you could miss some team that could have gotten into the game for Quintana but didn't want to for Sale.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) Can't see him being dealt until Fowler and maybe Desmond signs. Probably Gomez as well. Just money in those cases (plus 1 draft pick for the first 2). I would very much be interested in going after Gomez if I were the White Sox, now that they have moved Sale. Fills a need, doesn't matter if he's terrible, if he gets a 2 year deal then he could be tradeable if he can recover somewhat.

Saw somewhere (FA thread maybe?) that the Cards were also one of the teams competing for Fowler.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:42 PM) Could Q possibly fetch Robles? We're definitely not getting both Giolito and Robles, but I feel like one of them MIGHT be possible if we package Robertson in too. If you couldn't get a deal built around a guy like that then there's no reason to trade Quintana. With that extra year of team control, he still should get a Sale-like package. I'd actually say he's a better fit for the Astros than the Nats, since the Stros aren't staring a "2 year deadline" in the face whereas the Nats are.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:28 PM) LA wants Turner back, not to deal for Frazier on a one year rental If LA offers him 4 years, $64 million he will likely resign If LA seriously wants to get under the luxury tax level in 2018 so that they're not paying the multi-year penalty starting in the bonanza offseason with Harper and Machado, they can't offer Turner that kind of money. We'll see if they're really serious about avoiding those penalties or not. With where they are right now, the penalty they'll pay if they don't get under for a year will be huge.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) In this day and age, it is more than reasonable to think a pitcher is going to get hurt. So many of them do. I'd say it is equally reasonable to worry about Moncada disappointing. Both things are possible. Pitchers get hurt and #1 prospects disappoint. In the end, that does nothing to change the calculus of this deal either way.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:11 PM) Searching to see if Moncada speaks English, I found this quote from 2015: https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/620677149800972290 Anyone know? Conveniently, the White Sox have a manager who speaks spanish.

QUOTE (2005thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) Apparently our targets were Betts and Benintendi + in July, that's why no deal. Buster Olney ✔ @Buster_ESPN White Sox get a big haul from BOS -- and it's a step down for what they asked for in July, which included Betts and Benintendi. LOL, if the White Sox asked for that it wasn't a serious ask, that was a "We're not trading Chris Sale" ask.

The White Sox made a bet that they'd get lucky in 2015 and 2016, lost, and this is the payback.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) Why has this not been finalized yet? I'm sure there's physicals required for names this big.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:50 PM) It was reported the Sox wanted Bennitnedi. And it was also reported that they wouldn't give up Moncada. They wouldn't give up both in the same deal. Decent chance the White Sox got the guy they preferred.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) Exactly. Why Hahn let any team tell him any player was off limits surprises me. Hahn should have been the one dictating terms not the other way around. And that goes for any team. I'm pretty sure that the return on this deal says that no player was off limits.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:42 PM) Sure he will play in 2018. They just called up Benintendi directly from AA and he did fine. Devers will start 2017 in AA. Might even be a September callup if he has a great year. What did the new CBA do to the "Service time" rules? Is it the same setup as the last one where waiting 2 weeks into April buys you another year with a player? They had to have edited that right, the players hated that.

Congrats to Rick Hahn on finally sucking it up and making a move that had to be made.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:06 PM) I'd rather not test how resilient our institutions are, but it seems like we'll be doing it continually for the next four years. "It can't happen here!" doesn't always hold true. I have nazis on campus tonight and the news media didn't call them nazis.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 11:59 AM) I think they are targeting the right types of players. I just hold a level of doubt about getting them to the majors. I know things have gotten better recently, but I keep asking myself the question is it because we are drafting better, or developing better. My answer is option 3: they're doing neither, they're just drafting higher and that makes it harder to miss.

So today's the day we get to welcome Richard Spencer to campus! Anyway, the university is holding a sponsored counter-event which is pretty nice. But what's really scared me about this has been the news coverage. There have been 4-5 reports on the nightly news and in the paper about this upcoming event with him. Several of them introduced him as "Controversial conservative speaker", "Controversial alt-right speaker", or referred to there being protests possible after his "Controversial remarks in Washington DC after Donald Trump's Victory". For the majority of people watching who probably don't know who he was, they did a great job of making it sound like whiny college kids who didn't want conservatives on campus. Literally at the last one where they referred to his "Controversial remarks in Washington DC earlier this month" or whatever the phrasing was I started talking to the TV and said loudly "Come on, those controversial remarks were 'Sieg Heil's". You're covering that up by calling it "controversial". That's what we mean when we say the press is not doing their job and allowing this stuff to become normal. They still have never pointed out that the controversial remarks were Nazi chants, but the best we got was last night calling him a White Nationalist. At least that made the racial part clear.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:54 PM) What's wrong with shooting a guy in the back and then planting the taser or gun next to him so obviously on camera? Well, it's not like the national anthem was playing when he kneeled down.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Been thinking this morning about Giolito and can't help but be reminded of Gavin Floyd. Although Floyd was approaching the former top prospct status when the Sox traded for him, their body frames and stuff is not that different. Both with straight fastballs in the low to mid 90's, great curve balls but trouble locating and change ups that need more development. To answer your question; yes I think the Sox can turn Giolito's stuff into pitching and a better one than Floyd turned out to be. My hangup with Gio is the TJ surgery he had. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that more times than not, one TJ surgery eventually leads to a second. That does stick in the back of my mind but his potential at 22 years old is just to good for me to object to. I admit that I prefer a trade with Houston or Boston but I won't complain about a package that starts with Giolito and Robles from the Nat's. If there is one thing that I, the person most down on the White Sox organization out of anyone I know, will give them credit for, it's preventing Tommy John Surgeries. There is, quite simply, no team better in the big leagues at preventing pitchers from going down with that injury. Whether it's Cooper or the training staff or both, the White Sox are an unbelievable outlier in how few TJS their pitchers undergo. I don't believe I have confidence in the White Sox developing players or pitchers right now, but if the White Sox say they can keep a guy away from TJS then that guy will not be having TJS with the White Sox. You can apply that same rule to Sale, I think. I can't guarantee he won't be hit in the head by a baseball next season and have that cost him his career. But I don't worry about the TJS for him. He got probably as close as anyone, and then pulled through the arm soreness back in 2012 without tearing anything.

QUOTE (Soxnfins @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) Should tell you how much more valuable relief pitching has gotten over he past two years. Also should tell you how much more value Nate Jones has than just the deal mentioned above. But does that remove a suitor for Jones?

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:41 AM) Napoli who may be somone Boston will go after if EE is too expensive. Bautista.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:49 AM) I don't know how any White Sox fan could be pleased with trading Sale and Abreu for prospects. This whole situation scares me to death. I can easily see this team losing over 100 games FOR YEARS if these trades are made. I think its madness to do that. It would be much easier to add to this team rather than subtract/rebuild. Trading off their best players for prospects could turn this franchise into its worse era since the 1930s. I hope I'm wrong about this but that's how I see it. If anybody thinks this team is irrelevant now in the Chicagoland area, it will only get worse after a few 100 loss seasons. Because the White Sox have been doing everything they can to win and still losing 80+ games a year for 4 years. It really is that simple. 100 losses doesn't scare me because "We think we're as good as anyone!!!!!!" has translated to 84 losses. 4th place is not substantially better than 5th. You cannot get less relevant than "worst TV ratings in baseball over the 2015-2016 period". The difference between 20000 and 17000 tickets sold per game really doesn't concern me, they're both still crap.