Greg Hibbard

I agree with your point before about Crede having the luxury of being developed, because we didn't need his offense. That's an excellent point. The interesting thing about Crede, though, was that he emerged as a real offensive threat when many of those power hitters left (Lee, Ordonez were gone after 2004 and Thomas missed most of 2005). You would think it might be the opposite, because he no longer had so much protection. Remember the 2005 team was really a pitching team more than a power hitting team. I think your point about Moncada and pressure is also a good one and I think Jimenez will take a great deal of pressure off of that when he comes up.

Balta, I had to go back thirteen years because the 2005-2011 teams that was consistently competing for a divisional title was in large part retooled with FA from outside the organization. Podsednik, Pierzynski, Garcia, Contreras, Jim Thome, even Nick Swisher was brought in as a supposedly "proven" veteran. Outside of Beckham and Ramirez, who did we really even attempt to develop in that era? Maybe Brian Anderson who Guillen later admitted he actually didn't like for entirely non-baseball reasons? After Guillen left, the 2012-2015 strategy was still locked into the retool mentality - Abreu came up and was ML ready, but guys like Dunn, LaRoche, Melky were guys who were brought in, not developed. This is really the first time since the late 1990s early 2000s we have really tried to develop talent from the minor leagues organization wide.

In the wake of the Kopech injury, as the season has turned more and more meaningless, I've been thinking a lot about Moncada and Anderson's numbers and whether they are "good" or not. What's strange about this is that 20 years ago, I would have thought for two young players 18ish homers and 40+ xbh, as fairly good, batting average aside. Add in Moncada's walk rate and Anderson's stolen bases, and some of their respective defensive plays and upside, and I think years ago many would have thought "these players are just fine, they just need time" However, that's NOT what's going on. The board is at least somewhat divided on whether both are going to be as good as they can be to significantly contribute to this team. Then I thought about Joe Crede. Joe Crede was one of the most frustrating players to root for from 2003-2004. After his rookie season of 2002 (he had a handful of PAs in 2000-2001), he had a very difficult time keeping his batting average, on base percentage, and OPS high enough to be acceptable for the next two seasons. He also had a difficult time keeping his WAR up, even with his defensive prowess. In his first 279 MLB PAs, he did very well - an over .800 OPS, great defense, tons of promise, WAR of 0.8 (with only 40% of a season). However, over the next 1123 MLB PAs, from 2003-2004, he did NOT do as well: a .251/.304/.424/.728, with a combined WAR of 3.2, averaging 1.6 per season. It obviously wasn't horrible or anything, but it wasn't something that I think White Sox fans felt they could necessarily live with as a long term option. My recollection was that fans were pretty unsure about him, in general. His two saving graces were his ability to hit homers and his defense. In 2003-2004 Joe Crede was 25 and 26 years old, and at the end of that time he had 1402 MLB PAs to his credit. As of the end of 2004, his stats were: .256/.304/.434/.738 career. Not bad, but just a seemingly just little above replacement. His career WAR was roughly 3.8 at this point. HOWEVER.... The next three complete seasons (and the injury shortened 2007) that Crede played were his best, and indubitably he was utterly essential to our championship run. I don't think anyone would argue that if we didn't have Joe Crede we would have won the 2005 championship. His combined 2005-2008 stats were: .258/.308/.453/.761 and his WAR over that span was 7.6 - twice the value of the previous four years over about the same number of PAs. All of this is to say that Moncada's WAR is currently 2.4 for his career at just 23 with about 800 PAs, and Anderson's is 4.5 at 25 through a little over 1400 PAs (ironically exactly the point Crede broke out himself) I think because Moncada was acquired in the Sale trade and we all expect instant gratification for players there is very little patience for MLB development. However, I think Crede (even as a lower rated prospect initially) is a great example of a player who gave us well over 1000 PAs at the MLB level before he was able to truly break out. Thoughts?

The Covey death march reminds me of Gordon Beckham’s last stand when will it end

So what you’re telling me is that a player willingly sat out a meaningless game 162 because he didn’t care if his team won or lost that game to preserve personal stats. It seems you are reinforcing the argument that the player wouldn’t care if the team lost 99 or 100 games.

Literally no one on this team of professional players will differentiate losing 99 vs 100 games. The tank should be back on and we need the #3 pick.

Lillian, your post seems to indicate that Moncada has been striking out at something like his early August clip, but honestly, strikeouts have not been the problem recently. Over his last 93 PAs, Yoan has actually only struck out 23 times. Yes, it’s not good to strike out even that much, but it is way, way better than it has been, about a seasonal pace of 160 instead of 200+. Moncada’s problem right now is that he actually has made an adjustment to strike out somewhat less, but his power and walk rate have also gone down in a way that hurts his overall offensive game more. He has just 7 BB over those 93 PA, and just 2 HR, 1 3B and 3 2B. As a result, his OPS and WAR are not really improving. I would much rather Yoan strike out 250 times a season if it meant we also got 30+ home runs. Recently, he’s kind of turned into a singles hitter (16 of them over that span), which is kind of bizarre given the 3 outcome rap he was getting in June. Did you ever think Yoan would have more singles than walks, doubles, triples and homers combined over any 100 PA span? The silver lining in this is that he may be more versatile than any of us thought.

....and then there’s the defense

Palka is so good at crushing home runs.

Yolmer creating a single

If Castillo isn’t benched for that...

Wow

We lost to them because of their dumb garbage bag hefty dome, air conditioning, and dudes trained to bounce hard grounders off of AstroTurf for singles Their lack of being an actual baseball team led to disasterous octobers im getting so angry remembering it all

That '03 team was so weird. We were so so good offensively, but that era was when we couldn't buy a fifth starter to save our lives. I remember the posters "ALL LINED UP" with Valentin in the middle and Frank just looking kinda weird and off to the side. Somehow Jose Valentin was kind of the heart of that 2000-2004 era. I really thought we were gonna pull it out until that last home game vs. Minnesota, and then after that result I knew we would get up there in Minneapolis and get swept. We did. They owned us in the "air conditioning" era. I hated those Twins teams so much.

We were better in the 2nd half in 01-03, but all three of those years were extremely disappointing starts, particularly 2001 with the disasterous David Wells signing and Frank's triceps tear.

At 23-21,The White Sox are poised to have a significantly better second half record than 1st half record this season - maybe even one that's at .500 or above it. Since the 2003 season ended, the White Sox had a better 2nd half record than 1st half only once- in 2011, when they were 35-35 in the 2nd half against a 44-48 start. I don't know what it is, but this team has always been a bad second half team in recent memory. Every good year has always been a ridiculously hot start (2000, 2008 come to mind) and then hang on for dear life in the second half. Even the 05 team had a mild scare down the stretch and wasn't that many games above .500 in the 2nd half. Here's hoping to a reversal of the 2nd half trend for years to come.... I know my heart could use a break when we get competitive again.

18 Ks in last 74 PAs I'll take that trend...

Davidson and Engel I agree on I just don't think Delmonico or Palka have had enough ABs at the ML level to know whatsoever

There's more than a few things that would have to go right though, for this kind of record to continue WITHOUT adding FA. 1) Rodon has to continue to be a nearly 2 point FIP beater. He is pitching very very very well, but the numbers seem more than a little unsustainable given his FIP. 2) Giolito and Lopez have to continue to pitch at the near-best levels of their career. Can that continue without any hiccups? 3) Kopech has to continue to be dominant. He's gotten washed out of a couple, but he gave the White Sox scoreless innings and allowed them to jump out front. 4) The White Sox hitters have to keep hitting as many home runs as they have recently (they have 43 in the past 32 games), as that is their best way to score, and often their only clear way. Obviously the addition of Abreu would ameliorate things in that department. It's likely that before long, one of our big four will slump and the power outage will render us incapable of scoring as much. I think the core is now there, but this is probably more like a .500 or slightly below .500 team unchanged.

Abreu is absolutely fine - this year. Next year? He will be older... And two years from now, during the beginning of our likely window of competitiveness, he will be even older on the wrong side of 30. I think if he were two years younger, everyone would be fine with extending Abreu and keeping him around throughout this run. However, it’s not clear how much value a player like him has at 34,35,36 when he’s at best average defensively and as a 1st baseman doesn’t have a ton of value above replacement

Even with his “hot” streak, Davidson is like a .225 / .730 hitter since May 1 with just 11 HR. I would rather take my chances with Palka.

Breakdown of last 47: Against teams over .500: (StL, TB, NYY, SEA, CLE, BOS): 10-10 Against teams under .500: (DET, KC, MIN, TOR, LAA): 16-11

?

Somebody tell Jack Parkman that Tim is at least as good as LaMarre was the other night

Since July 10 the Cubs are 27-18- just 2.5 games better than the Sox. Surprising to say the least...