mr_genius

Bill Clinton promised to lower middle class taxes, but raised middle class taxes. The idea is that people will be ok with campaign lies, as long as the economy is strong. He basically got totally away with it, I'm sure Obama knows this as he is an astute study of US political history http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...;pagewanted=all sound familiar? sounds a lot like what Obama is pitching. In the end Bill Clinton raised almost everyone's taxes, not just people making his new 'ultra wealthy' $115,000 single earner or a married couple making $70,000 each. It's a gamble, and Obama is taking the gamble like Clinton did. If the economy doesn't get better and he raises everyones taxes he's one and done for sure. If he lets the Bush tax cuts expire and the economy is strong, Obama could be in excellent position to get re-elected.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 09:51 AM) I believe this means that he will not be able to vote for himself. haha but he can still vote in the senate if he wins! can he submit his senate votes from jail, like an absentee ballot for imprisoned United States senators?

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 07:26 PM) I know. My question is, isn't that where it really belongs, and not legislated? ah i see. i think the ballot vote is the way to go.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 06:59 PM) I guess that's another issue, but what Biden said really isn't inconsistent (as far as I remember) with what Barack has said, regardless of whether their plan is legitimate. I didn't realize Obama didn't count the Bush tax cuts expiring as tax increases. That is disingenuous. However, the net tax effect is still a reduction in taxes for all but the top quintile according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center's analysis. http://mediamatters.org/static/images/item...-taxes-full.jpg http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8060900950.html but thats 2009 tax rates. the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010, i believe. the tax situation would look a lot different in 2010 if Obama lets all the Bush tax cuts expire.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 06:59 PM) Question: shouldn't this be something on the ballot and not passed by legislation? (sorry, this may be in the thread and I didn't read the entire thing). It's on the 2008 California General Election ballot.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 06:40 PM) It is the one thing that drives me crazy about the Republicans. They can shove their "evangelical morality" and trying to tie government to it, right up their rear ends, because it has no business in government at all. It's the single biggest area that they need to improve on, besides the stupidity of the Bush spending sprees. agreed. in full.

QUOTE (Soxy @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 05:46 PM) I know that isn't your logic, but the whole, if gays and lesbians can marry people will marry cows!!!!1!!!! drives me up the wall. finally thank you. I don't understand what part of " I don't agree with this assessment, but I think that is the logic behind the proposition" lost people.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 05:35 PM) A Nintendo? We're dealing in PERSONS here, as in PERSONAL relationships. No one has a personal relationship with their Nintendo, at least in the eyes of the law. I'm just telling you what their side is trying to say. They would also argue that persons marry multiple persons would be the next step in the degredation of marriage after same sex persons marrying same sex persons. So calm down, it's not even my view of the situation. someone asked what their whole point is and I'm am merely responding to that question.

QUOTE (hawksfan61 @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 05:19 PM) You should see some of the commercials out here for the vote yes side, they are so over the top ridiculous I have to laugh every time I see them. The sad thing is these stupid ads are working, last I saw this morning it was tied. I think it is going to pass unfortunately, and if that gets put into law out here, gay rights have a long way to go across the rest of the country for sure. I'm surprised it is doing to so well in California. I guess people really do buy into these mass marketing schemes political parties put on the air, no matter how crazy.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 05:17 PM) i bet you wouldn't think so if it were Obama's campaign sending out racially charged flyers and losing his home state... Everything could be 'racially charged' if your preconditioned political stances determine it so. If you are referring to the flyer which is linked in this thread, why do you assume that is from McCain? Anyone can print up some crazy flyer and put it all over the place; that flyer is completely crazy, over the top, and racist. I certainly do think that flyer is total garbage, I completely disagree with its views no matter who is printing them. So you just lost your bet.

QUOTE (longshot7 @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 05:00 PM) He did, but who's counting? wow. this thread is really dropping into the s***ter.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 04:55 PM) Link/ source? http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...28/1600845.aspx There is no way that the taxation plan Obama has promised is what the actual rates will be. Even the Obama campaign is inconsistent and can't get it completely straight.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 04:04 PM) McCain has REALLY tarnished his image. Gore lost his home state in 2000

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 03:22 PM) Making rich people pay 4% more in income tax is not much of an injustice. But that's strictly my opinion. The issue is that there are large gaps in Obama's spending and taxation plans. The Obama definition of ultra wealth has already dropped form $250,000 to $150,000. I would expect people making $60,000 to become part of the ultra wealthy tax bracket once Obama has been in office for a while. His tax cuts are a farce, I was using the 'tax cut' calculator on his website and his 'tax cut' is a $500 check giveaway to everyone. Example: a single person paying 70k gets a $500 'tax cut'. A married couple paying 70k in taxes gets a 'tax cut' of 1000 even if the wife makes $70,000 and the husband makes $0. So the same amount taxable income gets different amounts of a 'tax cut'. Basically the husband gets a $500 'tax cut' on his annual salary of $0. It's not a taxation decrease, it's almost the same as the free check giveaway that Bush has done, except someone that pays no income taxes gets a 'tax cut' of $500 under the Obama plan.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Oct 28, 2008 -> 03:58 PM) Why should they care about what happens in California? This is a big issue to me because I just have no idea how people can be so close minded to something that has zero affect on their own lives. It really upsets me how people can be so adamantly against something that would make another person happy, while changing nothing in anyones lives. I believe the argument to vote yes on this proposition is that the fundamental structure of our society would be adversely effected by gay marriage. I don't agree with this assessment, but I think that is the logic behind the proposition. I think they are concerned that all kinds of crazy people will be demanding to marry an assortment of crazy things; like some nerd that wants to marry his Super Nintendo wins a court case stating his civil rights were impeded by him not having a legal marriage. So I guess if the institution of marriage was completely degraded into joke status, yea maybe that could change our societal structure in a negative way.

lol

New York Yankees get government bailout http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/...egoryId=3286128

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Oct 26, 2008 -> 10:06 AM) I like how he complains that white people in the suburbs don't want to pay for city schools. uh, buddy, why the hell would they want to throw money into some failed system with jackasses like Bill Ayers making educational direction decisions.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Oct 26, 2008 -> 09:31 AM) Lie with confidence and then refuse to gove that station any more interviews, because they were mean to poor Joe. Yup, handled that well. biden just comes off as a dumbass, as usual.

QUOTE (Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 25, 2008 -> 04:23 PM) haha thats great. you know he was thinking "WTF is this. I want the usually softball questions the Democrats get. "

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2008 -> 02:52 PM) Obama has been scrutinized more deeply than any Presidential candidate before I have the exact opposite opinion. Maybe I'll follow up on this my MSM media critique thread. I don't dislike Obama, I don't care if he wins.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Oct 24, 2008 -> 09:48 PM) Everybody knows that, however 90% of people wont acknowledge the significance that has in the current election. They seem to think that Obama got his feet wet in Chicago politics without corruption. Good sir, how dare you question The Great Leader. USA! USA! USA!

"Everyone take a step back and remember Illinois, and Chicago, are run by Democrats. That means it's perfect. Done and done. "

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 22, 2008 -> 06:10 PM) After the damage Bush has done to the economy...in a few years, $75,000 a year might be the top .1% of wage earners "Typical vast right wing conspiracy. I don't get any credit for this disaster which I played a major role in creating."

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Oct 24, 2008 -> 09:11 PM) can I start a "Republican hate, anger and self-mutilation" thread? nothing ever stopped you before