IlliniKrush

Yeah i posted this in the NBA thread. I also knew someone down there, and she said it was a joke. She actually heard gunshots outside her hotel one night, and another night left a party at a hotel before there was a shooting there as well. The NBA has major issues.

I was thoroughly disappointed to see him on the bench. Actually when they showed him i had to really concentrate to make sure that was him, as i just couldn't see it happening. And then every time i saw him he was laughing and having a good time. I'd like to hear exactly why he was on the bench. IMO that just wasn't right at all, i have no idea what the hell that was.

I'm sad to see the Chief go. I see why he's going, and i'm not throwing a hissy fit about it even though I think the reasons behind it aren't very good. But it's something you become accustomed to, and you don't think of it as a native indian type thing at all. It just becomes part of your school experience. The reason it meant a lot to me is that it always came right before the Alma Mater at a bball game or football game, a time when students and alumni of all shapes and sizes could celebrate the school as one. Surrounding the court and singing the Alma Mater with fellow fans while the Chief holds his arms wide open for all makes you feel like you are at the heart of the university. It was one of my favorite traditions. Now i'm sure it will live on in some fashion, as the Alma Mater won't go away, but it won't be quite the same. That's one reason I think it meant a lot to others as well, maybe not. I'm sure everyone has their reasons. If you didn't go to the school you don't have to get it and i respect everyone's opinions about it. But people are indeed emotional about it for various reasons (I mean imagine some alum from the 60's or whatever that has seen this for years), i'm not to the point of crying for days over it by any means, but i'd be lying if i didn't feel a bit choked up while watching him come back out one last time to acknowledge the crowd. Kudos to ESPNU for at least covering the entire thing.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) Thats the stupidest thing ever, ESPNU sucks Yeah, we're all supposed to call our cable company and complain, you know the espnu tagline. WCIA in champaign even tried to buy the game for champaign, and nada. ESPN is pathetic.

In other news, Illinois is actually playing a basketball game tonight vs Michigan at 8:00. And thanks to ESPNU, I will have to venture to a bar or restaurant to watch it.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 04:41 PM) Madison you have to be 21 to enter a bar at night, unless you are accompanied by your legal gaurdian. I dont really know of any college campus where you dont have to be 21 to get into a bar. I always thought that was only an Illinois thing, because they use it as one of their recruiting tools. (Not talking about athletes, talking about when they are trying to get students.) On the Chester thing, we also dont know what Jamar Smith said to him. For all we know he told Chester: Carlwell was drunk as hell smashed up the car and told me he wanted to sleep it off in the passanger seat. Lets go out and make sure that he is breathing, but I dont want to call the police and get him in trouble. Chester isnt a dr, and some one passed out in a car without apparent injuries may not look that injured. In retrospect its easy to say "oh carlwell was seriously injured", but from personal experience I know people who have gotten in worse wrecks and tried to keep the police out of it because the injuries were only minor. Seriously? Cmon, that's the most ridiculous line of story i've ever heard. If Jamar thought he was dead, he certainly went inside and told Chester and whoever else was there that he thought he was dead. Then he probly asked him to come out and check it out, which apparently Chester did to some degree, enough to see the car was absolutely smashed up. At this point is when Chester should have called the cops. He's a terrible teammate for not doing so. If he gets kicked off the team so be it at this point, I don't see why Bruce would want him as part of his basketball family after he left a brother for dead. And perhaps they didn't call the cops because they were indeed convinced he was dead and were trying to figure out a way to get rid of the body or create a real good cover up story to make it look like an accident. Bruce should dismiss Jamar from the team sooner than later.

Good to see the NBA had a great all star weekend... http://sports.aol.com/whitlock/_a/mayhem-m...220103009990001 Good God the NBA has problems.

http://sports.aol.com/news/articles/_a/col...990001?cid=1690

QUOTE(illinilaw08 @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) Didn't see this anywhere yet. Jamar pleading not guilty. However, I doubt there is anyway this case ever makes its way to trial. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2773947 I highly doubt it as well.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 02:45 PM) I mean have none of you been in a group where being a "snitch" etc would be detrimental? Chester is on the team too, and who knows how the rest of the team may react to him calling the police on another teammate. Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, there's a huge difference between being a snitch and telling on your sister, and not calling authorities when your teammate could be dead, or close to dead and in serious need of assistance. He's part of the team, and has a responsibility to help his teammates out. What the hell did Chester do when he saw the body? I'd love to know what he was thinking. If i'm Brian, i don't want these guys as teammates anymore. That is grounds for suspension in some fashion. Kicked out of school no, but I see no reason why being part of this cover up (and yes if he saw the body and thought he was dead/almost dead and did NOTHING, in my mind that'a part of it) can't result in some sort of disciplinary action. What if Brian did die? Would you think differently of Chester? I'd love to know when a coach or school official knew about the accident and when they did something about it. Doubt we'll ever know that.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 02:23 PM) I stand by that quote, but with the details that come out more and more by the day, this case is not only the kids fault, it's also Bruce having no control of this team. At this point I think both parties (players and coaches) are at fault. Is that fair in your opinion? (I hope so, your a good poster, lol). Yes i'd say you can spread the blame around. And ultimately he's responsible, and Guenther, etc. They have to make sure the attitudes and beliefs of the program are solid. I'm just getting the feeling that people are throwing equal, if not more blame for this particular incident on Bruce than Jamar. Somewhere along the line yes he's accountable. Behind closed doors i highly doubt he's telling guys to go drink, go wild, help cover up for teammates if you get in trouble, like it appears some of the players and/or assistant coach did. I mean if the assistant coach did that, that's especially on him, not Bruce, he's a true adult and a supposed leader. Unless he told them all somewhere along the way "this team is it around here, something happens, always try to cover it up guys, etc." A while back there was some article (I think this was after Pruitt's thing) about how to support one another, don't let someone go out by themselves, always go out and try to help each other make good decisions. Overall I think Bruce preaches the right things, and I think he's taking too much blame for Jamar just acting very foolishly.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) I disagree about the Chester part. First of all there is no law, requirement, etc that you must help a person. Its hard to get into a persons mind, but Chester Frazier did not cause the accident. He did not drink/drive, he just happened to be the roomate of some on stupid. Now his a friend/teamate of both of them, but how can you ruin his life because he did not perhaps make the "best" decision. Because the decision he did make was not illegal, and while stupid, the position was thrust upon him. Just by circumstance he now gets kicked off the team? Im also not sure about the scholarship/ what type of agreement is signed, but I would for sure contact a lawyer if I was Frazier and the school tried to take away my scholly. I mean for not being a good sumaritan/ being a stupid kid the penalty of being kicked out is way to harsh. This also has nothing to do with Bruce. Chester made his own decision. While I don't necessarily feel he should be kicked off the team for sure, he needs to be punished in some fashion. You have to hold your players responsible, and it seemed Chester was also part of this 'cover up' if you want to call it that. If that's the case, then something needs to be done, because that is unacceptable. It's not really about being a good person and doing the right thing, it's about assisting Jamar in his ridiculous night. That's how it sure appears to me.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 02:17 PM) The real reason Weber is taking heat is becuase people are disappointed with his recruiting and the lack of a 25 win season. If Illinois were closing in on a top seed and a 5 star recruit was signed for next season, you can bet there would be a lot fewer calls for him to be fired. But I do think you have to consider that Weber hired (or retained) the assistant coach and recruited the players involved. It's his program, and like any manager he's ultimately reposnsible for the end result. I don't know enough to say if Weber has somehow been negligent in running the program. I would hope the AD would know more than me and be able to make an accurate assessment. I don't necessarily think Weber should be fired, but the AD needs to take a hard look at how the program is run and decide what to do. And all options should be on the table. Weber seems like a decent guy, and I hope somehow things improve. And I think that's enough of me sitting judgement for today.... Well to quote 101 from a few days ago, and I agree, "I can't blame Weber either, who knows how a person will change between the age they are first recruited (15) and when they normally leave (22)." I have no problem looking at all aspects of the program, I understand that. And you are right, the AD is in a better position than all of us to know what goes on, 'inside information' or not around here. I'm just basing what I know off facts, that's about all we can accurately do. I also think Weber is a decent guy, and I hope this whole thing turns around soon.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) Im just telling you from first hand experience. Will a freshman 3 years from now even know that there was a chief that danced at halftime or whenever? How about 10 years? It will fade away, you will see. I'd say they will. It will fade, but I wouldn't call your first hand experience a direct comparison to what will happen at U of I. I just think the spirit of the Chief will live on with people, especially since the name fighting illini didn't change.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 01:59 PM) Anyone who was connected directly to this accident needs to be fired, stripped of scholarships, kicked out of school, or whatever is appropriate to their standing at the university. If Webber was invovled in this, he deserves to go as well, but if people want him fired because he is responsible for what happens in their freetime, I don't understand that. By that logic, the AD and the President of the University should be getting fired as well, because they hired Webber and admitted these kids into the school. Maybe Webber hasn't been the toughest coach on players off the court stupidities, but I don't see how that makes him responible for some people's complete lack of common sense and deceny. Most of those morals are taught way before you get to college. In theory, you are correct. I haven't heard anything about Weber answering Jamar's call and not calling the police. If that comes out, by all means fire him. Until then, hold the assistant coach responsible. He's not a 19 year old either. No matter what is preached by Weber, an assistant coach can make up his own mind about what do do. Fire him if you want. But quit drawing every line to Weber. Because if you want to do that, might as well draw it to everyone in the university, like ss2k5 said. The longer this goes on, the more and more blame Weber is taking, and it's becoming ridiculous. Last time I checked, he didn't drive the car, enter the car, drink that night, drive drunk, not call 911, ignore a phone call from a player, etc. A 19 year old acts like a moron and all the sudden Weber is to blame, almost more than Jamar it seems. Kick Jamar off the team, hand out whatever other punishments you feel necessary, and move on. QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 01:46 PM) 2) The school has to step in, not Weber. Eventhough its his team, the reality of the situation is he has to support his players. If he starts selling them down the river, how will he get recruits in the future? If Illinois itself disciplines them, he can atleast say "Hey I stood up for them, thats all I can do". I agree. A lot of people had a problem with his statement, I however did not. What do you want him to say right now? First of all, all the facts aren't even out yet. He should wait til he has everything sorted out, talk with RG, whoever else, and figure out where to go from there. He has no responsibility to let the college basketball world know what he plans on doing immediately. Furthermore, he still has a responsibility to the rest of the team to finish this season. Through all this they still have a shot at making the tournament (had to win sunday, have to win tonight, etc), so he has to worry about coaching and getting the team focused. I'm sure that's been harder than we could even imagine. What's done is done with Jamar for right now. I understand why the statement was short, concise, and didn't really say anything. He didn't say anything wrong.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Sorry man, but thats the reality. In the next few years the final students who remember the Chief will slowly graduate (some slower than others) and a new crop of high school kids will come in and develop their own memories and customs. Within the years after that, there wont be a tradition called the Chief, there will be something else taking its place. I have been through a name change of a University and just like that, every memory of it was erased and replaced by new memories. I don't see this happening exactly as you see it. Will the bitterness die down? Sure. But for the thousands upon thousands of graduates who had fond memories of the Chief, they will continue to remember, and it will still be talked about. I don't see another 'mascot' or anything else completely taking its place. The memories won't go anywhere, and people will hold onto their Chief apparel forever.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) Just reading some of these posts and the responses to them, most of you guys are around the same age as these players. Am I really hearing people saying that college aged kids aren't mature enough to be held responsible for their own actions? Are the people who are saying that Weber should bear responsiblity really trying to tell me that you all should still be answering to your parents, and they should be making your decesions for you? Yeah, surprisingly you are hearing that. QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 01:37 PM) I think he should have been kicked out his freshman year. Then, after the DUI, he should have been suspended for the entire non-conference. Weber was way too lenient with these criminal acts in the past, and now he's in a situation where if there's another issue, he's gone. It all comes down to respect, and too many of the guys on the basketball team recently don't seem to care if they disrespect Weber or not. While I can see your point, I don't think that is how the majority of programs around division 1 are run (correct me if i'm wrong). I don't think Bruce went way out of his way to be lenient in his punishments. I thought Rich could have received more games. However, I don't see how that in particular would have affected Jamar. 4 or 8, etc, not a big deal. QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) Again, this isn't even close to being Jamar's first run-in with alcohol related criminal issues. I wonder if this might put a stop to taking 17 year old prospective recruits to bars on campus on their visits that you have to be 19 (I think that's the age) to enter. This is where you have a better chance of convincing me Weber needed to be more in Jamar's case, as opposed to making Rich sit more games. That I could see. We don't exactly know what goes on behind closed doors. But Jamar is still an idiot either way, plain and simple. I think people are jumping on Weber just to jump on him at this point because it's really easy. Furthermore, if Smith gets something other than kicked off the basketball team forever, I'd be shocked and thoroughly disappointed. Like thedoctor said, Guenther may have already drawn this whole thing out. We'll see.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Feb 21, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) You have to be able to control your players.... and from the looks of it Weber hasnt been able to do that. And wasnt it Fathom or someone else who actually knew Dee Brown and supposedly the players dont even care much for Webber either. Top that off he cant recruit worth a damn either...... Regardless of what happens with Smith, this is a negative on Weber as well. Should he watch over them 24/7 or something? They are college kids, and Jamar made a big mistake. Don't try to play this off any other way than Jamar just made some terrible choicies. Another coach, same story. And oh btw, if you want to talk about Luther Head and communication, at least mention how Weber helped him turn his life around, and now he's in the NBA.

If Jamar is sober, concussion or not, he doesn't drive that car home. I'm not giving him any excuse on that whatsoever, especially if he actually thought Brian was dead or seriously, seriously injured. He had something to hide, so he got the hell out of there instead of calling the cops. It's simple. Also, throwing this on Weber is pretty poor. Does Jamar do everything the same if someone else is coach? I don't see how you could say it would have made a difference. People are trying to connect dots that aren't there. He doesn't purposely recruit bad character players or not tell his players to make good decisions.

The one logo that always seems to leave a temp mark on my plasma is the stupid espn logo in the bottom right hand corner. I think this has to do with the sharp contrast in colors on it - white logo on a bright red background. You'd think ESPN would change the stupid color of that thing. And yeah, i turned down the settings on my tv so it's not 100% brightness and stuff. Temporary burn-ins do seem to correct themselves shortly afterwards.

Neitzel takes down Wisky, go ahead and give OSU the #1 spot.

Sure we all did something stupid when we were 19. Most of us probably never did anything quite this stupid. He can have another chance at college, and maybe even at basketball. Just not here. Playing basketball for U of I is a privilege, and he sacrificed that privilege by doing what he did. It will be shameful if he ever plays for U of I again.

Haren, and it's not even close

Bye bye Jamar. I don't care if 101 and myself have to suit up for the Illini...he better not play for the Illini ever again. He has zero business. .17 two hours AFTER the accident? Are you kidding me? What a complete moron. Still a few questions that need to be answered, but we knew this would be ugly.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/downlo...ng_schedule.pdf