IlliniKrush

Something big is going to happen this week, just has to.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 06:17 PM) I bet like they did last year where he starts and gets one AB and comes off of the field after he takes the field in the 2nd inning to a standing ovation. He did that last year because he was injured, it wasn't necessarily for the ovation. If he plays Sunday, pray he gets a hit, then pull him off - if he doesn't want to play the whole game.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) That's great in theory and all, but there aren't many Barry Alvarez-type coaches out there. Recruiting "talent" who may not qualify is still better than recruiting 4 & 5 year MAC-caliber players. Again, one is sustainable and you can build a program on, the other isn't. Regardless of if they are 2 stars or 4 stars, you need them to play, you need to coach them up, and you need to have upperclassmen to win. The numbers from Zook say a lot. Now, you want 3 and 4 star players instead of only 2 and 3, but the concept remains the same. Ever looked up Kansas State's history? They win with JUCO's and walkons. The goal is to find the next Barry Alvarez-type or close to it. Wisconsin was in as bad a shape when they started the whole thing. It can be done.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) Alvarez won conference games his first few seasons though (0, 2, 3, Rose Bowl). It was apparent they were getting better year over year. My point still stands, he built Wisconsin into what it is today by recruiting into a system, having guys there 4 and 5 years, and playing mainly upperclassmen due to depth. I'm not sure who has seen those numbers on Zook before, but they are crazy. Should change perspective. In your numbers above, we're at 0, 1, ?, so we'll see how it plays out.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) I don't really get the last point. I'll take exciting, high level, NFL caliber players with some bad losses over a bunch of MAC-level players who are model citizens. We didn't have those coming into the program at the end (see: 2013 season), and furthermore, what good is it recruiting "talent" when it doesn't qualify, or drops out of the program? The model citizens at least play football on Saturdays. It's all about sustainability of the program and trying to build something besides a flash in the pan. All this from Robert at Illiniboard: I'm not saying don't recruit talent, I'm saying recruit talent that will stay in the program and build with 4 and 5 year players. Hell, that's the exact Wisconsin model Alvarez used to build.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:29 PM) That's kind of my whole point. Of course Zook is no Nick Saban, and he was lacking in gameday intelligence, but it's Illinois football we are talking about. He recruited lots of exciting NFL talent to the program that at least made games worth watching, and made 3 bowl games in 5 years, which hadn't been done since the late 1980s. I guess everyone is happy now though with the worst head coach in all the Power 5 conferences, but at least the program isn't "ruined" anymore. How far into the ground did you have to dig to place your bar? I'm not sure how many times we have to say it, but Beckman's results have nothing to do with evaluating Zook. If we had hired a home run, would you be saying the same things about Zook? I highly doubt it. What if we fire Beckman, and the program somehow gets worse? Should we be calling for Beckman to still be coach? No. If he's not the answer, move on and try again. That book is closed before the new one starts. And Zook wasn't recruiting at the end of the tenure, so the whole thing wasn't sustainable.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:27 PM) My argument is - people need to evaluate his tenure a little more reasonably. All I hear is how terrible he was, but he was actually not bad in comparison to other Illinois coaches. IMO as a fan, he had to go because he would never get the program where I want the program (the next Wisconsin). But that doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that for the program as it exists, he was "good." It surprises me that with Beckman and how the last 2+ seasons have gone people can't acknowledge that maybe Zook wasn't as bad as people thought. Again, a bad Beckman hire doesn't make Zook any better. Why he had to go is a good way to put it (Wisconsin), and I also think had the program pointing straight down and he wasn't going to recover from it with what was there. I think we're arguing over a tallest midget contest. So Zook may be the tallest. My main argument is that he needed to be fired, and there seems to be a few people saying no, he shouldn't have. It's kind of went in different directions from there. It was put best by whitesoxfan: "Zook was the best of our last 4 coaches which speaks more to how bad the other 3 are then how good Zook is. It is telling that none of these guys have had any success anywhere else." As far as general building goes, the WAY in which Beckman is trying to build is more sustainable than what Zook was doing. So, if he's not the guy here, hopefully the next guy can build in that regard, and I think he'll have an easier time building than what Beckman came in with.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) Which way is it pointing now? Irrelevant to the conversation re: Zook, but slightly up, if not just straight across, but I will wait 8 more games (or perhaps less) to give you a definitive answer. This isn't a Zook vs Beckman comparison. You don't make a judgment on whether or not Zook should have been fired 3 years after the new guy takes over.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) It was a back-loaded schedule vs 5 straight bowl-bound teams that included the rigged JoePa finale. Sure, they sucked against Minnesota at the end, but the rest of the schedule wasn't a cakewalk. Had the Indiana and Michigan games been reversed, I bet the same final outcome would have looked differently. I think a lot of people thought that when they were 6-0 that is was a bit of smoke and mirrors, kind of like we are seeing now with 3-1. It took one bit of adversity and it was over. They lost to a bad Purdue team (after having OSU complete one pass the week before and win), and tumbled the rest of the way with that awful Minnesota loss as you mentioned, which sealed it. 2010 wasn't awful, but 2009 was brutal too.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:16 PM) On top of taking over a program that was terrible the 4 years prior, winning 1 big ten conference game the 2 years prior to his first year. So he basically resurrected the program, made 3 bowl games in 5 years and won two of them, and that, for an awful football program, is not good enough. Again, totally reasonable to let him go, and they should have earlier than they did, but people need some perspective on how good/bad he really was. Now you're starting to contradict yourself and play both sides of this. If it's good enough for that awful program, then you are in favor of keeping him and saying his firing was wrong. Then you immediately say "totally reasonable to let him go."

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) The state of the program? Again, he ruined the program so badly that they made back-to-back bowl games for the first time in 20 years. That's the "state" of Illinois football. And in that moment in time, which way was the arrow pointing?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 01:02 PM) All fair points but you guys seem to be ignoring the good. I'd love for Beckman to win 6 games and then lose 6. That would be better than where they are right now. I'm not trying to ignore the good, there was just more bad than good (and the future pointed towards real bad), and the good wasn't satisfying enough for where I think we all want this program to be.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 12:48 PM) First back-to-back bowl appearances since 1991-1992, yet that earned him a pink slip. Talk about unrealistic expectations. Are you really forgetting where we were at in 2011? You don't remember the collapse? You may have been the only person who wanted to keep Zook around at that point. I guess back to back bowl appearances = Illinois contract for life? Unrealistic expectations? Come on.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 12:37 PM) Not really true. His teams won 2 bowl games in back to back years, which I don't think Illinois has ever done before. I think people need to be a little more realistic about Zook. He was far from good but he wasn't terrible, he did a lot of nice things, but ultimately his ceiling was too low for the Big Ten. He needed to be removed, earlier than he was, but he was better than a lot of other Illinois coaches, including Beckman. And why not Cubit? He did pretty good at Western Michigan and the offense turnaround was amazing last year. It's not as good this year, but he's got a lot of young transfer talent in key positions, on top of some injuries. He's not a home run hire, but people are dreaming if you think a great coach is coming to Illinois in down years (if ever). Illinilaw covered it pretty well. Simply tossing out "2 bowls wins" without context is shortsighted. Finished the year 0-6 with an absolute collapse at the end, no other way to put it. Played in a joke of a bowl game and won, but he wasn't coaching as mentioned. Zook was building a football academy, not a football program that could sustain any sort of success. His recruiting fell off, and he had a ton of guys drop off the team for one reason or another (something Beckman hasn't had). If Beckman isn't the answer that's fine, but Zook needed to go. Zook could recruit (until the last couple years), but he wasn't a good coach. For as much as people make fun of Beckman, I think they are forgetting some of Zook's issues with forgetting the score, going for 2, clock management, etc.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) I honestly don't remember which coordinator was when or what he did, just saw someone mention it on Twitter. Either way, there's yet another good reason why Zook should have never been fired. No. Zook for sure had to go. He was a terrible coach, his recruiting took a huge drop off, and the program collapsed at the end. As mentioned, they hung on to him too long. He also had a ton of guys leave the program, which left the team with zero depth. Regardless of what Beckman has done, he left the program in bad shape for the next head coach (yes he had some talent senior year but after that, no depth, and we saw the results last year). This isn't a "since the guy who took over is possibly worse, I guess it says old guy should have never been fired." Zook didn't have the program going in the right direction. Even if Beckman doesn't either, it just means find the guy who can. If Beckman is gone after this year, whoever takes over will have an easier time building than when Beckman came in. I just don't know who would come here. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 11:46 AM) Regardless of the quality of the class, Zook found NFL caliber players routinely. They just didn't have the coaching to really win at the college level. I agree with you though that he needed to be fired much earlier to save the program 5-6 years of rebuilding. Guenther did the same thing with Weber, so let's all be glad he's gone. I see this team winning 5, maybe 6 games at most. Beckman gets fired and Cubit is offered the HC job and he takes it. Another 2 years of 4-6 win seasons and we're back to having the same conversation about whether Cubit is good enough for year 3 and 4. Routinely early on, sure, but not consistently. I don't think Cubit is offered the HC job but who knows.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 10:22 AM) Illinois's former defensive coordinator has the same job at UNC, who just happened to give up the most points in school history. QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 22, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) Can we please please please get him back then? Dude was incredible here. Yeah, VK was incredible, way to cherry pick one game.

Needed 6 pts from Antonio Brown.

QUOTE (OsweGo-Go Sox @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) I'm aware of the reasons for it, but as a person who 1) has had tickets to the finale since February and 2) doesn't give a s*** about football, it is a bit annoying. Well you said re: Sunday "on the day that actually makes sense" so it didn't seem that you were aware of the reason for it.

QUOTE (OsweGo-Go Sox @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) I'm a bit miffed to be missing "Paul Konerko Day" as I have tickets for the finale on Sunday, but oh well. I can just catch it on TV then pay tribute on the day that actually makes sense. It was actually a really good call to have it on Saturday night instead of Sunday. Packers @ Bears, 12:00.

Thanks for letting America down, Clemson.

And we squeak out another win. Very disappointing. I don't see how this team wins 2-3 BT games, but crazier things have happened. But as much as I've tried to give TB a chance, and believe that building from here will be much quicker and positive then rebuilding again, there's been nothing here this year to show me we've turned any sort of corner, and that sucks. In addition to not being prepared and barely beating these crap teams, he goes for 2 today twice when it didn't make sense. But here's the best part. Illinois is up 7, there is a minute left in the game. Texas St has only 1 timeout. It's 2nd down. Illinois runs for a first down. So 1:00 left, clock is now running, Texas St has only one timeout, and it's first down. So, you take a knee, right? We ran the ball. We ran a play, snapping it with 30ish seconds left. And then the game ended. We ran a play instead of taking a knee, risking fumble......................WHAT?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 11:52 AM) Stop trolling soxfan1. He hasn't responded to you in months and you keep bringing it up, it's time to let it go. Jameis keeps doing things to make it worth mentioning. And if he's not here, it doesn't matter anyway.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 11:50 PM) Looks like he just lied to the AD and president about what happened and then video surfaced. Color me shocked.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 10:38 PM) If he only had one leg...... On an inline skate.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 10:56 PM) Digging. I saw some rumblings that there is something deeper than the lunch room thing. Wouldn't surprise me. It also feels more like an accumulation of crap that now leads to some form of punishment. Good for him, I really hope Clemson can upset them, would make everyone outside of FSU happy. Oh, I almost forget..."Rock, I doubt there's anything deeper, that just doesn't seem like something he would do, he's a nice person, etc."