spiderman

Has the 2nd half of the season finally nailed home the point that Mark Burehle is NOT an ace pitcher ? Yes, he is probably still our best pitcher, and, like I have said previously, he is a good pitcher, but an ace he is not. This White Sox team was known for it's deep starting pitching and quality starts. It is also becoming known in the 2nd half as a staff, outside of, surprisingly Jose Contreras, as one that has not gotten the job done. Period. Brandon McCarthy has been as dependable or better in his last 3 outings than Garcia, Buerhle, and Garland and Guillen doens't want to use him.... I don't know about you guys, but I'm more than nervous at this point. The White Sox are choking away their great season.....

I should add that I'd much rather see Hawk and North together - if North were to get a job only because my worst fear in a North-Farmer booth is that North takes over the booth - I don't think that happens with North and Hawk.

As I said in the original John Rooney thread, Mike North would have a major say in who gets this job beacuse he controls a lof of advertisers on that station, and is seen as it's star, meaning he gets his way on most things....Plus, he's close friends with Jerry Reinsdord, and this all kind of adds up.. From the Score perspective, they may actually not see it as the worst idea in the world because it may give them the opportunity to start a new morning show - his 'debates' with Annie are just the typical talking points, and aren't very intelligent, while Fred is nothing more than an update guy. As a color analyst, I'm sure North will offer up 'analysis' in the heat of the moment, but I just don't see him as a baseball expert who would provide any insight into the game...Basically, he'd just be a fan in the booth.

I be surprised if it was Stone hired.... But, I think the real question is, who does Mike North want - after all, he seems to have a huge pull at the station, controlling lots of advertisers, and being their 'voice of the station'...

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 06:56 PM) Yes. I don't think Hawk has nearly as huge of ego as some people do. Stone has a serious knowledge of the game, and being an ex-pitcher offers a different perspective. I really think Hawk's favorite partner was Don Drysdale, an ex-pitcher with a great deal of knowledge, and an ego. Those 2 disagreed a lot, but respected each other. I think Hawk respects Stone's knowledge of game. So what do you think is going to happen here ? Farmer and who in the radio booth ? Stone and Hawk on TV ? I'd love that, but I'd be shocked.

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 06:53 PM) a terrible decision. I guess being named the best duo on radio in USA Today didn't help after all. Can someone email Brooks about this? I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this decision.... If it isn't about money (which is what usually anything is about), then why would the Score be interested in changing directions ? It's not like Rooney is controversial or anything like that, he's such a professional at his job.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) If you heard what Dan McNeil said a couple of months ago, you wouldn't think so. I think McNeil basically said that the management was kind of embarassed by his whole 'I hate anything Cubs's act...wasn't that the point McNeil made ?

QUOTE(rangercal @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 06:50 PM) I bet the score wants steve stone to take his place. Though, I love stone, not at Rooneys expense, I will boycott the score from now. How would that work ? Two color guys basically...Farmer has done some play by play, but that would be 2 guys talking over each other. I love Stone, and think this would be a more than acceptable replacement.... I'd love Rooney back for years to come, but it isn't happening - so if they get Stone, I'd be ok with that.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 06:47 PM) I wonder if Dave Wills is on his way back. If he has a connection to Mike North, then he would have a chance.... Wills is a tough listen - yes, a big White Sox fan, but way over the top in his hatred for the Cubs.

QUOTE(Nokona @ Sep 2, 2005 -> 06:42 PM) AM 1000 just reported that Ed Farmer will have a new partner in the booth next year. Apparently Rooney will not be going over to the score per White Sox decision. This is absolutely terrible. I quit White Sox Nation. Yeah, I also heard that - that's a shame. He's such an easy listen, and I wish he was doing Sox games for the next 10 years. All I know is they better get somebody from outside that station - I don't want to hear Jesse Rogers or some other Mike North pet getting that position.

Are players like Ross Gload, who was brought up on September 1, but on the 40 man roster, and with the team earlier in the season eligiblie for the post-season roster ? Maybe wishful thinking, but hopefully he'll be a decent hitter, and rotate between 1B/DH.....

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 11:24 PM) actually with the exception of the era Buehrle is right where maddux was at this point in his career. And, like you say, Buerhle is often compared to Maddux because of the way they pitch, and I also expect Buerhle to be good for years to come.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 10:49 PM) Greg Maddux in his prime wasn't a shutdown pitcher. yet he was an ace. Same with Tommy Glavine. I'm not sure where you going with this - in their primes, both Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux were both much better stastically than Mark Buerhle - Tom Glavine won 20+ games 5 times, and had ERA's lower than 3.00 6 times; Greg Maddux has been a 20 game winner 2x, (17x 15+), 9 times with an ERA below 3.00. Again, Buerhle has been a really good starting pitcher for the White Sox, but those guys are incredible statistically.

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 09:52 PM) As I drink my coolaid I wonder what kind of Sox fan would ever CLAIM as you put it so incorrectly per verbatim spiderman...."the white sox are done". i don't care what comes after that. do you work for the trib? do you need to really stir up attention to your clever little "the white sox are done" to get a thread started? what kind of cred do you have after you make such a claim? don't ask me jack ask the likes of players in the organization! Actually I would like to see how COOL you are in proclaiming to KW's face that "The White Sox ARE DONE". BTW, exactly what was the motive behind proclaiming "the whitesox are done"? of course we all know that not to be true, but why state something that eats at the heart of a fan? when gooch has a bad game MB doesn't say you are done dude, instead he makes light of the situation and tries to pick em up. Try calling the postgame show and tell em "the whitesox are done" and see how many friends you make! :banghead Let me define DONE for you, from my perspective - they should/will make the playoffs, but they're not going anywhere in the playoffs playing the way they've been in the last 50+ games. What kind of White Sox fan would be critical of the White Sox ? One who watches the games, and sees things as they are instead of through rose-colored glasees. If the White Sox were playing better ball, there would be no need to discuss their failings, would there ? I was not trying to bring up anything more than debate my thoughts - which you apparently cannot. How about this ? Let's actually talk about the my points in the original post I made, and you tell me why I'm wrong, why everything's perfect. I am more than willing to discuss them with you. I think we have one thing in common - we both want them to do well, so let's discuss the points I made, or you counter with your own.

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 08:19 PM) OMG i just read 8 pages of how the mods were going to start modding the site against topics like this...."THE WHITE SOX ARE DONE"??? Hey mods let's assume that ozzie, kw, any sox player in the organization, hawk were to be passed this topic and asked to respond....hmmmmmm WHAT DO YOU EXPECT AS A REPLY FROM THEM? they might say something politically correct, but i don't have to, so i just want to continue to say it for them, THIS TOPIC IS JUST A USELESS ATTEMPT AND A SLAP IN THE FACE OF THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION! even if the points are in good taste the topic itself deserves major questioning! CANT YOU MODS PLEASE just recognize that the topic needs to be changed to something like "THE SOX ARE STRUGGLING" which in itself is a no brainer......I would like to contribute to this site, but I really get so frustrated reading posts here! We have a cool-aid drinker! I, at no point, criticized any player for anything beyond their performance on the field. I don't think you're being very honest if you want a site where can never criticize a player or team. Try reading again - I have said several times that I hope the Sox turn this around, but you obviously aren't interested in anything but pats on the back for this team.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 07:02 PM) Hasn't it been more like 31 days and 20 hours of disappointment? I thought people on here told us not to worry, KW would make some waiver trades to sure up our team? I don't think KW ever guaranteed that he'd make a move, just that he'd explore everything out there and do what he can to improve the team. Still, I hope we can upgrade somehow, someway before the night is over.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 07:13 PM) I'd say he's a number 1, but not an ace. This year, though, he may not even be the number 1 on this staff. I think he's #1 on our staff, but not an ace - so I think we're close to being on the same page. Be careful though - I've been called an idiot already for suggesting this.

QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 07:08 PM) Haha, I love how the only possibility is that we played over our heads the first half, and are not underachieving lately (BTW, don't use the whole 2nd half, 2 four game sweeps on the road happened in the second half, by us), Especially when our playoff lineup and one used most of the first half has been out, ummm, once in the last month? You could be right, but this has been going now for 50+ games, and I think this should be concerning to White Sox fans who hope to not only make the playoffs, but actually win a round or two.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 06:58 PM) How many aces are there in baseball? There are 30 number ones, but how many aces? Milkman - do you think Buerhle's an ace OR a strong #2 starter like I believe ? Obviously, every team has a #1 starter, but not every #1 starter is an ace. There are probably at least 20 teams in the league that don't have a legitimate ace pitcher.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 06:01 PM) So Buehrle is not an ace because he struggled against Texas. A lot of pitchers do. They have the best lineup in the AL. Also the defense wasn't exactly great behind Buehrle. IMO, Buerhle is not a shut-down pitcher, thus he's not an Ace, but he's clearly our best starting pitcher. Getting back on point, I realize most don't agree with my Buerhle comment, that's fine, we're not going to agree. We now have a 8 game stretch where hopefully we can get on a roll - the Tigers for 4, Red Sox for 1, and the Royals for 3 - this stretch is important for 2 reasons - 1) just getting this thing turned around, and 2) turning around our losing ways at home as well... I'm hoping for no worse than 5-3, hopefully 6-2 in this stretch.

QUOTE(Nokona @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:35 PM) Would you like to retract that statement? With this lead in the 2nd game, are you back on the bandwagon? I'm a big White Sox fan, I just don't drink the coolaid.... Making I am worrying too much, and maybe they will be playing their best ball come October, and I hope you all can tell me I'm wrong.....

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) whats your definition of ace, Kerry Wood? Kerry Wood is not an ace.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:58 PM) If Buehrle hasn't been an ace this year...who has?? He has lost H2H 2x to Barry Zito and Johan Santana - yes, i know our team must score runs for him, but at some point, don't you have to be able to knock off other teams' top starters ? Again, this is not to say that he's not a good pitcher - he's a really good pitcher ,just not an ace like you believe. I don't think there are a lot shut-down type pitchers out there - off the top of my head, I'd say Clemens, Halladay (when healthy), Santana, Carpenter, Colon, P.Martinez are definite aces, and there's a few others out there that are arguably as good as Buerhle.

QUOTE(letsgoarow @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:51 PM) buehrle is 14-7 with the 2nd lowest era in the american league.... id say he is a fifth starter at best Nobody is saying that Burehle stinks - did you read that somewhere in this thread ? As I said, he's a good #2 starter, but do you honestly rank him as a true #1 starter ?

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 07:38 PM) Bad stat. And if we're depending on help from the inside, we'll be waiting a long time. Milkman - why do you consider that a bad stat ?