NorthSideSox72

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2010 -> 07:45 AM) The biggest, easiest complaint that anyone can make about TARP is that while it saved the current system...it saved the current system. Yeah, it kept things from getting worse at a surprisingly low cost at the end. But it also put massive amounts of money into the hands of the very people who caused the mess, made 100% sure that they didn't do anything to reform and protected them while leaving everyone else in the country out to dry. Whether we end up turning a profit on these plans or not is an argument that misses the point. We made low (or zero) interest loans to a bunch of financial institutions to protect them, with the U.S. government assuming all the downside risk, and in the process protected a certain class of U.S. citizens and world investment elites. That wasn't TARP. People seem to not understand this - what needed to happen (which I am sure we both agree with) is for TARP to go out, and quickly, then follow it up with more considered, deep rebuilding of the regulatory environment. The former was necessary no matter what, and the US ended up paying nearly net-zero dollars for it. The failure was not TARP - the failure was in the weak overhaul attempts that came after.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 04:35 PM) The driving point was the 'property rights' bulls***. Yes and that was indeed some scary s***. QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) Pelosi forced a vote on extending middle class tax cuts, and decoupled tax cuts for people making over 250k. It passed, with only 3 GOP votes saying yes. And this is what the Dems are going for - show the country just how stupid the GOP is in their petulant behavior on this issue. As Gingrich put it recently, split up the taxes at the 250k line, and vote on each. That will show people's true colors. QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 05:15 PM) Word is Reid is planning on forcing a Cloture vote. With a second package on the table to extend tax cuts for non millionaires. I still despise Reid, but I hope he can find a way to get it to a vote. That would be a huge victory for sanity - pass the under 250k extension, forcing the GOP to not only look stupid for their "block everything" method, but also force BOTH parties to show where they stand on above 250k.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 2, 2010 -> 08:51 AM) So, what are people's thoughts on foreign entities taking some of the Feds emergency funds? On the one hand, they paid it back with interest, so no loss. But on the other, there was potential for losing hundreds of billions if those banks closed. I didn't care for the original bank bailout, and I don't really like the idea that the Fed is becoming a world bank. Edit: here's the link: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4dd95e42-fd6d-11...l#axzz16xwmUz4S TARP was a huge success, I still don't get why people have issues with it - other than the what-happens-after being really lame. But that's an interesting point about foreign banks getting the money. I'm not sure how I feel about that just yet.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) What the Founders Wanted! :facepalm: I actually agree with the last bit about 14a, though I disagree with his methodology - the amendment has been interpereted just fine. It just needs to be changed.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 03:51 PM) Well said. I want to eat a rat poison omlette whenever I hear "we still won 88 games." The team collectively soiled their pants and lost 12 of 14 games from September 6 to like September 21 and were outta the race LONG before that last week when they decided to get hot. This was about a .500 team in reality. Then the Twins were an 87 win team in reality, so I guess the Sox won the division! Yay! I mean, since we are randomly deciding to remove 7 wins from a team, right? Seriously, there's being disappointed, and then there's being absurd. Do you really not see the difference between this: "I'm content with the season, we still won 88 games" (which is your straw man), and this: "we still won 88 games despite disappointments, holes and injuries, so we don't need to retool the whole team"?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 01:40 PM) Wait, the prison terms for murder wind up being way too short? Are we breaking this down by race or anything? can you back that up with data, that prison terms for murder in the U.S. are shorter than in other western democracies? With the number of people we have in prison compared to the rest of the world I find that hard to believe without data. (And anyway...the death penalty note is relevant there because one of the main arguments in favor of it is that it is a deterrent to serious crime, aka murder). First, I meant terms SERVED. Second, yeah, in most other countries, people actually convicted of murder serve longer sentences, from what I understand. But really, I meant they are shorter than the should be - I don't care that much what other countries do. Also worth noting, other countries probably have vastly different rates of success for actually prosecuting homicides anyway, some way higher or way lower than here as a %. So number of people in prison isn't a good measure.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 01:37 PM) Yet we're about the only one in that group with the Death Penalty. Death Penalty is a tiny, tiny percentage of prosecutions anyway, so that's not really useful to the topic. What he meant I'm sure is that the prison terms people actually serve for murder or manslaughter here end up being way too short, and I tend to agree with him. That has an effect.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 01:00 PM) It wasn't just the record that failed, it's the organization as a whole finding itself in a very bad position this offseason without anything to show the past 2 years. We aren't a very young team, we have young pieces though. But, we have major holes that cant be filled in by our farm system because it's bare and we have so much money tied up in a few deals that it'll be hard to fill all these holes through FA. The Sox are starting to fall into that 2nd tier team that will fall into the cycle of being just good enough to keep some fans at the ballpark, but not enough to sustain a high enough payroll. Put on top of that they won't have fantastic draft slots and won't go overslot than the farm system will continue to struggle to provide everyday players of high caliber, or even trade bait. It's the mediocrity that scares me, and this offseason will tell alot about the future of the Sox. I think you are spot on about the minor league system, and about the money they tied up in a failed Manny acquisition and other contracts that make it difficult to do much. But I am not sure about slipping into mediocrity. This team won 10 more games than the season before - not less. And despite a barren minor league system, they did get guys like Beckham and Sale to punch all the way through to the majors quickly. You are right about this offseason, because its a particularly tough one. Sure, if the same team was assembled but with a real bat at DH/RF, and a new closer was added, the team would look very good - but as you note, the money makes that difficult or impossible. So making a good run at it in 2011 will either require Jerryand company to take a risk with more money, and/or KW will have to pull a few rabbits out of his hat.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 11:40 AM) Inevitably, someone will respond to my post saying that 88 wins isn't good enough for them - as if they are somehow tougher and more disappointed than any of the rest of us. That will be followed by someone saying, basically, that because they are more disppointed by 88 wins than they perceive me to be, they are more of a fan than I am. No one was happy with finishing 2nd, but some people feel the need to use hyperbole to express it. QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 12:24 PM) Hyperbole? Please, I don’t see how last year could be seen as anything other than an abject failure. We conceded the division to the Twins in Spring Training. It just took it a while for that to shake out on paper. You don’t go into a season with gaping holes and your fingers crossed. I don’t care how many games we won last year, we willingly came into the season as a flawed team and ignored a very real shot at winning this division after assembling one of the best pitching staffs in the game. We went into the season with our weaknesses on glaring display for the entire world to see, that matters a lot more to be then 88 wins, a lack of a playoff berth, and a yearlong glimpse of the fundamental misunderstanding that our manager has for the game of baseball. The record is meaningless when we have nothing to show for it. I have high expectations for this team year in and out and I’d like to see this organization establish similar goals for itself. Seriously though, you seem to have this weird idea that KW or JR or Rick Hahn or anyone were somehow going into the season being "OK" with these holes. Newsflash - all teams have holes and weak spots. Do you think KW wasn't aware of them? He didn't have $200M to spend, or even $150M. Not sure if you noticed, but the pitching staff - that most of us thought was going to be elite - ended up being no better than OK. That wasn't a gaping hole on display, that was injuries and other unforseen issues that happen every year to every team. Same with Beckham's struggles, AJ's ice cold start, and Jenks' breakdown. The only thing that going into the season was an obvious hole to everyone was DH - and that did indeed turn out to be the disaster that all expected. I'm right with you there - Ozzie was dead wrong, and KW was wrong for listening to Ozzie on it. And yet, despite that obvious hole, the team won 88 games with a much lesser pitching staff result than was anticipated. If the pitching had performed to expecations, this would have been 90-95 win team, among the very few best in baseball. Terms like "debacle" and "abject failure" have not even a remote connection to this team. The 2007 team, yes. 2009, maybe, but still a stretch. 2005, 2006, 2008 and 2010 - not even close.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 10:59 AM) You would think we won 45 games while playing 9 55 year old men every game the way people talk about this team. Inevitably, someone will respond to my post saying that 88 wins isn't good enough for them - as if they are somehow tougher and more disappointed than any of the rest of us. That will be followed by someone saying, basically, that because they are more disppointed by 88 wins than they perceive me to be, they are more of a fan than I am. No one was happy with finishing 2nd, but some people feel the need to use hyperbole to express it.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 10:22 AM) Call me cynical but I'm not sure that after the debacle of last year (which was masked by 88 wins) I'd categorize the Sox as a winning situation. Not until we get off our asses and start making the kind of moves that put us legitimately in line to be better then the Twins. LOL, yeah, 88 wins was a debacle. Some of you guys, if you were fans of most other teams, would have commited Hari Kari by now. This stuff cracks me up.

As someone said earlier, I think some people can FEEL emotional energy at a high level, and that can be sort of, kind of, like reading their minds. They may also be able to pick up energy from whatever is there that we don't see (ghosts or whatever), which I am 50/50 on believing. But no, no one can truly predict the future in any concrete way. QUOTE (IChaseBlackWood @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 10:30 AM) I've actually been told by someone on here before that it may not be the smartest thing to upload actual photos of yourself. It may not be safe! LOL, awesome.

QUOTE (Cknolls @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 09:50 AM) A neutral reading of consumer confidence is 90-120. So very weak. Would not get excited until it reaches 120. In this economy, nothing is worth getting excited about. I do however think its become clear in the past 2-3 months, via a plethora of generally positive trends, that the pace of recovery may be accelerating. That is a good thing.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 09:20 AM) The problem is that when all the programmers that actually know the older languages start retiring there aren't many younger programmers to take over because they don't teach the older languages much anymore. I got my current job because I'm only 33 and have been programming in Cobol for the last 12 years. I also know a little RPG and even assembler. I think I was one of the last group of people to actually take those classes in college. Yes, which is why there is still a good market for programmers in languages like that.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 07:47 AM) It's kind of a ticky tack point, and the bottomline is that the Sox haven't had good defense in RF in a while, and I don't think they're too hellbent on improving defense out there any time soon. Beyond that, I think Quentin's still enough of a threat to be a huge middle of the order threat that it's not worth moving him when he only costs $5 mill. Basically, I don't believe that Carlos Quentin can be any worse, and I don't think the Sox are going to make a change based on his mediocrity in the outfield. I think he'll get atleast one more year, and if he does the same thing next year, then I don't think they will tender him a contract. Since they probably won't have made any other big moves by Thursday, I think you are right that they will give him another 1 year contract and hope he gets in a better mental spot, and maybe improves in RF a bit. Or, if they make a big splash for an OF, they move him to DH. Either way, its probably a good move, since non-tendering him or trading him at probable low value is not a great proposition.

Other reports today... Private sector job growth in November at 93,000 (vs 58,000 expected), the highest in 3 years and the 10th consecutive month of growth in the ADP report. October number revised up nearly double from 43,000 to 82,000. Senate failed to advance jobless benefits extension.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2010 -> 07:34 AM) I believe the store sales numbers were for last friday alone, while this number is for the full thanksgiving period (i.e. including Thursday and the weekend as well). Ah, that makes sense, with the reports of the spreading out of Black Friday shopping... flat on the real day, increases the other days, for an overall increase.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 04:06 PM) cst_sox cst_sox Getting the feeling that it's going to be a long winter for Sox fans - think "The Kids Can Play II.'' Cowley being a columnist here, not a journalist... QUOTE (SoxPride56 @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 05:01 PM) I asked him if that was an early April fool's joke...he responded with the above. Yeah, most of what Cowley writes is his conjecture, he doesn't get a lot of actual facts because people don't like talking to him. I'd take anything he says with a whole bucket of salt.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 09:43 PM) So, will you guys be mad if the Democrats compromise/cave in and renew the tax cuts for the highest bracket? What if it includes an unemployment extension? I guess that is assuming you support an unemployment extension. I think Obama is right to draw the line around 250k, but I also think it would be good in this environment for him to sit down with the GOP and compromise on a higher number, maybe 500k. Ideally, Congress puts forth two seperate bills - one for under 250k extension, the other a debate about the area above that. What will probably happen is a temporary extension for all.

QUOTE (G&T @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 06:30 PM) That story is almost certainly fake. What story?

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 04:21 PM) Black Friday Weekend Sales Rise 6.4%, $45 Billion in Spending Monday, November 29, 2010 According to a National Retail Federation (NFR) survey conducted over the weekend by BIGresearch, more shoppers visited stores and websites over Black Friday weekend - and spent more - than a year ago. With one of the biggest shopping days of the year under their belts, retailers have reason to smile, the NRF said. According to the survey, 212 million shoppers visited stores and websites over Black Friday weekend, up from 195 million last year. People also spent more, with the average shopper this weekend spending $365.34, up 6.4% from last year's $343.31. Total spending reached an estimated $45.0 billion, the NFR said. "While Black Friday weekend is not always an indicator of holiday season performance, retailers should be encouraged that a focus on value and discretionary gifts has shoppers in the spirit to spend," said Matthew Shay, NRF president and CEO. "As retailers look ahead to the first few weeks of December, it will be important for them to keep momentum going with savings and incentives that holiday shoppers simply can't pass up." If it seems like Black Friday gets earlier every year, that's because it is. Many retailers opened their doors earlier than ever, and eager shoppers followed suit. According to the survey, the number of people who began their Black Friday shopping at midnight tripled this year from 3.3% last year to 9.5%in 2010. In fact, by 4 a.m. nearly one-fourth (24.0%) of Black Friday shoppers were already at the stores. Thanksgiving Day openings have also been a boon to the industry, as the number of people who shop on Thanksgiving - both online and in stores - has doubled over the past five years, from 10.3 million in 2005 to 22.3 million in 2010 Interesting, the reports earlier this week of brick-and-mortar stores showed flat sales. So the increase must have been big in cyberspace. Having an overall 6.4% increase is far bigger than the 0-2% bump I had seen quoted as likely. Nice to see.

Also, Putz and Konerko have both declined, per Gonzales in the Trib.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 30, 2010 -> 11:24 PM) White Sox fans should be used to having bad defense in RF by this point. We've had it for like the last 6 years. I don't think that his defense is going to be a factor in him getting moved, as bad as it is. If anything, it will simply be to free up some money because he is a player that is going to cost a fair share of money and is relatively easily moved. 6 years? Dye wasn't horrible defensively in 2005, he started to decline (IMO) in 2006, but didn't start becoming super-bad until 2007.

Today's reports... Home prices for 3Q dropped 2%, after 4 straight quarterly gains including 4.6% the previous quarter. This was somewhat expected with the drop-off of gov't incentives, but still not great. Not a big worry point just yet with all the other recent positive data, but something to watch. Consumer confidence jumped to a 5 month high of 54.1, up from 49.9 in October. Expectations were for a rise to 52. Markets rebounding on the report. Jobless benefits will expire at midnight tonight for about 1-2 million people, barring Congressional action. Black Friday weekend foot traffic was up from last year, but spending about flat.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Nov 29, 2010 -> 11:45 PM) I actually thought the most interesting part was the confirmation that AJ and the Sox mutually agreed to forgo arbitration. Indeed that is very interesting, and I think there's still a likelihood that he ends up back here on a 1+1 deal.