NorthSideSox72

According to Dan, he has been pitching in the low-minors equivalent of the AFL (this is a somewhat new invention, the Sox are one of 8 teams participating). No stats available.

Ehren has been pitching in the Mexican Winter League. Interestingly, he has STARTED 4 games. His stats as a starter: 4 G, 19.1 IP 3.26 ERA 1.24 WHIP 7 BB vs 10 K Overall: 9 G (4 starts), 32.1 IP 3.34 ERA 1.29 WHIP 10 BB vs 20 K Should be interesting to see where Wassermann ends up for the 2010 season. I wonder of the Sox wanted him to try starting, or if Ehren just went to that league to give it a shot of his own accord. I'd have to think someone would give him a spring training invite, if the Sox don't.

MiLB's headliner article right now is about Teahen's path to the majors.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 09:28 AM) I know it's a lot of money (not mine fortunately), but I still think that Dotel is the best option out there and personally I would offer him arbitration. The worst that happens is he accepts and we overpay for what should be a quality reliever. JMHO. Sounds good in a vacuum, but it sounds bad when you consider that the $6M he'd probably earn would likely hinder the efforts to fill actual holes in the lineup. So I don't think offerring arb is a good idea - try to sign him to a new deal as shack said, if he'd take a couple mill maybe, but I think he'll get more than that as a free agent.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) I can't really see him getting a major league deal, can you? I haven't looked around the league at the current 3B situations to be able to speak to that. If he can't, then I agree, the Sox might be his top choice for a minor league deal. And I'd be in favor of that, assuming he passes the physical, and that he doesn't block Viciedo/Morel (who look to be at AAA and AA respectively).

Very interesting. I'd say this means 95% he gets traded in the next couple months.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 09:20 AM) I bought a WS Crede road jersey after 05'. Unfortunately someone broke into my condo a few months later, and that is one of the things they took. Darn crooks! If the guy would sign a minor league contract - and we may be the only organization he would do that with - I would definitely sign him up. For a minor league deal? Absolutely, it hurts nothing, and gives a nice backup plan to Teahen. If Viciedo moves to something other than 3B, it can be done without blocking anyone.

Regarding the Afghanistan thing, I've had some fascinating conversations lately with a couple people who know the situation there personally. One is a reporter who has spent time there, the other is a co-worker who is of Pashtun descent and has family in the tribal areas of Pakistan. There are multiple themes from both of them, but two were in common, and stick out to me. One, is that they believe the system of government needs to be more federal - NOT more NATIONAL. Basically, in many generations past, Afghanistan did have a central royalty, but they really were there by builing regional coalitional support. Much like a federal situation. Each region was very autonomous, and nominated their own representatives to the central ruling government. What is happening now is, Karzai is CHOOSING the regional representatives FOR those regions, thus defeating the purpose. This should change. The other is, what we did in Iraq, but haven't really done in Afghanistan, is invest in infrastructure. The US spent something like $150B on infrastructure projects in Iraq. Afghanistan's government asked for $30B of infrastructure work, and got less than half that. Infrastructure means jobs, economy, transportation, and all sorts of things that would ally the regions with the US effort. It may seem like a bribe, and it kind of is, but it is likely to be very effective. This should be done as well.

A note to all your FS posters, who have AAP's - the offseason is a good time to update your AAP threads. A lot of them are pretty stale in there, which is a shame, because we link to those threads from futuresox.com and all over SoxTalk - let's keep this area up to date!

Wow, this thread is pretty stale. Jacob was a surprise pick by the Sox to play in the AFL this year. He looked a bit overmatched though. Here are his numbers there: 6 G, 6.2 IP 9.45 ERA 2.85 WHIP .433 AvgA 13 H 6 BB 4 K The only good news is, he finished on a higher note - his last three appearances, he pitched 4.1 scoreless innings. But even in those games, he gave up 4 hits and 5 walks, which is far too high a rate. Rasner turns 23 this Friday, and will be 23 in his 2010 season. Drafted in 2005, has 5 years of minor league play under his belt, and he MAY be a minor league free agent (not sure on that). All this, and he hasn't pitched above High A, where he put up two seasons of not-great numbers for Winston-Salem. Seems like the organization was using the AFL as a make or break viewing of Rasner. He's got a serious uphill climb at this point if he wants to pitch in the majors.

Cassel was less than spectacular in the AFL. Here are his numbers... 7 G, all starts, 18.1 IP 7.85 ERA 1.91 WHIP .333 AvgA 10 BB 13 K 2 HR Its puzzling that Justin did so well in 2008, leading the Southern League in ERA, only to do far worse in the same league (and in some time in Charlotte) in 2009. He looked downright overmatched in the AFL. Hard to say what 2010 will bring, but he'll probably be in Charlotte, trying to prove he can still contribute to the big club at some point.

This thread needs some updating. Danks played in the AFL this year, and looked darn good doing it. Still striking out a little more than we'd like to see, but otherwise was very impressive: 26 G, 99 AB .343/.458/.505/.963 7 2B, 3 HR, 23 RBI 5 SB, 2 CS 20 BB vs 26 K That's a lot of K's, but its also a lot of walks. There is talk of Danks possibly making the big league club in 2010, but that seems like a long shot. He should likely be in Charlotte, and we'll get to see how he does against some better breaking pitches.

Dayan played in the AFL, but only got in 4 games before leaving the league with an injury. His numbers were impressive in his short stint: 4 G, 18 AB .333/.350/.556/.906 1 2B, 1 HR, 6 RBI 1 BB vs 6 K Should be interesting to see how he does in 2010, after steadily improving in 2009.

Retherford started hot in the AFL, but cooled off, and then took a week off with a minor injury (which may have cause the slump). But after he came back on 11/11, he started to hit a bit more, and hit a HR in the championship game to help his team to victory. His final numbers included a .246/.333/.348/.681 line, but as noted, that doesn't really tell the full story. It appears CJ is continuing to open some eyes, and had been talk of him making the team out of ST possibly. This is now unlikely with the recent moves on the Sox, but, he should be fun to watch in AAA in 2010.

Kyle's AFL numbers: 5 G, 5.2 IP 4 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 7 K Not much action, but did well with the time he had.

Brent played in the AFL in 2009, taking the place of injured Dayan Viciedo. He definitely got the most of the opportunity, putting up huge numbers, including leading the entire league in hitting. In 16 games: .435/.456/.565/1.020 over 62 AB 2 2B, 2 HR, 11 RBI 4 BB vs 7 K He has definitely attracted some attention, and it should be fun to see what he can do in AA in 2010.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 07:21 AM) He had a 12.5 UZR last year (23.4/150) and he's not even healthy. Knock his bat and health all you want but the guy can still pick it. No doubt he's damn good with the glove, but there have also been times (2007, 2008) when his back was clearly hindering his play. And that's when he could even take the field. I own just one actual, official, White Sox jersey - and it has the name CREDE on the back. He was one of my favorite players to watch play defense. I'm just saying, unfortunately, his health is a huge issue, and his bat hasn't been consistently good since 2006.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 1, 2009 -> 01:20 AM) Maybe I should have clarified.... If he was healthy (could get over back issues) and possibly return to '06 form, I'd be ecstatic. He hasn't been able to make it through a full season healthy since 2005. What makes you think 2010 would be the year? Let's just get the usual stuff out of the way: --Yes, he was good for about 1.5 seasons with the bat --Yes, he was very good defensively at one point, when his back was only an occasional problem --Yes, he played a big part in the championship, and we'll always love him for that --Yes, we all played more f***ing Journey on our iPods for 2 years than should ever have been the case --No, he's not healthy --No, he hasn't been able to play a full season in years --No, he's not worth the investment --No, he is not a great bat, career-wise

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 05:23 PM) ND will get rejected as long as they are so strict with their athlete academic requirements. ND is and has been one of those few schools that has succeeded at building a highly successful major-sport athletic program while still being academically elite. Duke and Stanford are others. I don't see any of them changing that, and I think that's excellent. A university is supposed to be a university. Athletic programs are great, but no school should sacrifice their overall standards just to have a good football team***. *** = I am aware that ALL schools make allowances for athletes, just like they do other individuals, but there is a difference between doing that, within the confines of still being academically rigorous, and doing what many other schools do and find a way to get anyone with a heartbeat in the door if they can block and tackle. The NFL and NBA have gotten away with, essentially, having a cost-free minor league system, and I think that does more bad than good, for both the sports in question, and the students at these schools.

QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 04:12 PM) lol John Wooden Legs via Andrew Sullivan via HP http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...ecking-ctd.html So not just a mis-attribution, but a completely opposite connotation of the quote. Impressive.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 01:53 PM) I don't think northside, or anybody else for that matter, is saying last year's performance was acceptable. But we didn't have the worst bullpen ever either. There were some good and bad (more bad). Point is to go out and try to 'fix' the bullpen every year when it's easily the most volatile position in the game might not be the best course of action. Especially for a team with a limited amount of money to spend and far more pressing concerns. We have on paper arguably the best rotation in the league. 6-7 innings minimum from our starters should be the norm. Making things A LOT easier for the bullpen (think 2005). Our best bet simply might be to hope Linebrink/Jenks bounce back, Pena pitches to his ability (2007), and at least one of our top minor league arms can surprise. QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 02:19 PM) This post is very much out of the ordinary for you. Your numbers are sound, their bullpen FIP was indeed 6th lowest in baseball but only 1 of the 5 teams ahead of them was an AL ballclub (Oakland), so the White Sox's bullpen had the 2nd lowest FIP in the AL this is due to their great K/BB (4th best in baseball) and middle of the pack HR/9. You're absolutely right, spending big money on bullpen arms is a losing proposition, rarely does a team shell out an 8 figure deal on a 30+ year old setup man and get anywhere near full return on their investment. Last season 7 years $27.25M were given to Damaso Marte, Kyle Farnsworth and Juan Cruz, 3 of the 4 highest paid non-closer relief pitcher's in free agency. 2 years ago it was 13 years and $54M for Scott Linebrink, David Riske, Ron Mayhay, Luis Vizcaino and Masa Kobayashi. 3 years ago it was 19 years and $95.3M for the top 6 relievers: Miguel Batista, Danys Baez, Justin Speier, Jamie Walker, Scott Schoeneweis and Chad Bradford. You don't fix a bullpen through high priced free agent middle relievers. Both good posts, I agree. And to echo something, I am not saying that having a mid-pack bullpen is somehow ideal. Its not. If you want to be a contender, your pen needs to be above average. What I am saying is what was said above by myself and others - investing in experienced, expensive arms for the pen is a losing proposition, the Sox pen was not nearly as bad as some think it was, individual-focused stats are not that useful when looking at the pen as a whole, there are talented arms in-house to consider (Pena had only part of a season, Hudson looks good, Nunez could be good), and the stats all say that guys like Jenks, and yes even Linebrink, are likely to do better in 2010. Basically, the pen should be a lower priority when you are talking about a limited budget (which the Sox are).

OK, just found it. In inherited runners scored, the Sox gave up 81 - 17th in Baseball. Again, middle of the road.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) See my post below. The Sox were in the bottom 3rd of all key categories relieving the pen in 2009 and in the 2nd half of the season, I believe I had read (although I can't find it this second) that they were amongst the 3 worse pens in all of baseball. I'll show again how this is not the case. Results-wise, as a pen, they were mid-road in ERA, and mid-road in save %. So as a group, looking at how many earned runs they gave up and how many leads they blew, which is what matter most here, they were average: ERA: 4.06 (8th in AL, 18th in MLB) SV%: 67% (7th in AL, 12th in MLB) WHIP and AvgA are great for looking at individual relievers, because you need to get rid of the effect of other pitchers. They are also not as good at taking team defense out of the picture, which we want to do here, to do an independent audit. But here, talking about the whole pen, results is what matters. And their results were not bad, though also not particularly good - and that in a year when, as I said, the majority of the pen was pitching below what their careers would dictate they'd normally do. To me, that indicates the pen is likely to be at least average again, even with no changes. But of course, bullpens are finicky things, which is yet another reason to not invest tons of money in it, as opposed to areas where positive impact can be more readily assumed. The only other key number I'd want to look at that I can't readily find is inherited runners scored. That is less of a factor than the two stats I gave, but still a good overall measure - so I'd be curious to see that, if anyone has it.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 30, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) Who is the current right handed set-up man? From what I remember, the Sox pen outside of Thornton was awful in the 2nd half of the season. Tony Pena struggled, Dotel struggled, Linebrink struggled, and DJ is not to be considered an 8th inning man. So in my personal opinion, I'm very worried about the clubs pen because it was one of the worse pens in all of baseball, imo. I'd also be the first to admit relievers seasons tend to be all over the map and there is no denying that Linebrink and Pena could be lights out again next year, but that doesn't mean the club should count on it and I have reliever as one of the teams biggest needs and I don't think I'm the only one to feel that way. Saito can be an 8th inning guy and that would be real real nice to have. If Pena develops like the Sox think and Linebrink pans out, awesome, we have a few guys and the Sox can really shorten a game and win a ton of games via our starters and bullpen. But in this day an age, the pen is so important to getting into the playoffs, so I sure hope the Sox are looking at upgrading it. I posted the stats a few days ago, the pen was not anywhere near awful last year, they were middle of the pack, more or less. And even with no changes, the only significant person out the door is Dotel, while we have the likes of Pena and Hudson in the wings, AND we had more people than not last year who pitched well below their career lines (Thornton being the only one who did better than his usual, and DJ the only one who was more or less the same). How does that translate to "worse pens in all of baseball"? Linebrink is a huge question mark of course. And like I said, I'd be all for getting Saito. But this idea I have seen touted on SoxTalk that the pen is so awful, is just not supported by any facts I can find. In fact, I think if you add Saito, a pen of Jenks closing, Carrasco in long relief, and setup being handled by some combo of Thornton/Saito/Linebrink/Pena/Hudson, has a good shot at being one of the better ones in baseball. Even without Saito, I think its decent. Sign Saito, great. But this need is far, far below the needs we have at OF and DH, who play every day and where we literally have no one.

On a slow day on SoxTalk, here is something to ponder. NPR did a little article on the Senate health care bill as it currently stands, but instead of focusing on the big ticket items, they drilled down to find 7 provisions in the bill not being discussed much, but that have some important impact. Article. Thoughts on these?