southsider2k5

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:40 PM) Ya.. right... The day this kid controls anything is the day hell freezes over. yeah I remember thinking the same kind of dillusions before Madison got here...

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:24 PM) She doesn't count. Her mind is cloudy with raging hormones right now. [props up mirror and runs away]

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:26 PM) I honestly don't believe that KW is worried about what the press will say about his transaction. If he did worry, then he would have never said the bulls*** he said about the market last offseason and how he was whining that he'd never re-sign another Sox starting pitcher. In reality, that should have had a much more negative impact on our fan base and perception than any move made for an aging veteran who has fewer hits over the last few weeks than deaths on the Sopranos. It is kind of hard to sell panic when you have won 99 and 90 games in back to back years to go along with a world series trophy. People wanted to be a part of the winning. It is much easier to sell panic when your bullpen is a disaster, the team is hitting in the .230's, and you are in 4th place. People will eat this up now.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:17 PM) Mainly because you don't know many season ticket holders. I know lots of people. I also know the Sox suddenly had a lot more fans than they ever had before in the last three seasons. Those same new hats seem to be disappearing really quickly this year. The core fans will always be fans, and those are the people who have been ticketholders forever. But there is no doubt in my mind there is a large bandwagon contingent of Sox fans, as evidenced by all of the people breaking ankles in the last few years to jump onto and off of the fan bus.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) What annoys me about that article is that trading Dye wouldn't be to save money. It would be to get some valuable players back that could help this team over the next 5 years. No one appreciates the impact Dye's had with this franchise more than I have....but if you can get good value for him right now, you have to move him. But the writers won't look at it that way, because that doesn't sell newspapers. They will focus on the millions of dollars that will be saved by trading him. You can bet on it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:01 PM) Well, if you can't make tough decisions like that, then you're in the wrong business. We already made one wrong decision by not trading Crede when he wouldn't get the back surgery during the offseason and we knew he wanted a huge money deal. This team needs young, exciting prospects a lot more than we do an aging veteran hitting .250 for the rest of this year with wheelchair-style defense. Its ironic, but I just came accross this article... I guess people aren't even going to wait until we start trading people to start talking about White Flag II. Kotex Boy himself could have wrote this drivel. You can go through and count the talking points I was betting on for youselves... http://www.pjstar.com/stories/061207/MIK_BDFII4M7.075.php

QUOTE(mreye @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) I wish we had legislators like that nowadays. Or at least a media that gave them some face time. Thanks for posting, Mike. I've got the speech on one of my Reagan biography DVDs. Maybe I'll watch it tonight. We have people like that now, just not in higher offices... Now adays they are labeled as "unelectable" and never get too far because they upset people.

QUOTE(StrangeSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:22 PM) So I take it that you have no answer for when Mr. Walker should be held accountable? And you're not denying that he is, at best, totally ineffective right now? You seriously are cracking me up. I know it is much easier to just keep asking questions than to actually answer any, but this is kind of fun. I'll just say a bunch of stuff and end it in a question, so as to avoid any real substance in my post, you know what I mean?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:14 PM) Cause he ran a stop sign and got in a car accident? That happens and so far I haven't seen them indicate any wrong doing of Smith. Now if he was boozing or something I'd quickly retract that statement but I feel very sorry for Smith. I doubt they would be mentioning additional charges and toxicology tests in the case of a professional athlete unless they had a reason to be suspicious of him. Those kind of things aren't mentioned in most accidents.

And this is the exact type of reason that John Paxson wanted nothing to do with Smith.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:59 AM) To you. Hey, Ang felt the sameway!

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) I was going to call in a "special favor" and ask that you get knocked upside your head.... Until I re-read the part about Jerry Reinsdorf not professional at running a business... It was then I realized you have clearly already been dropped on your noggin several times. And yes, please do storm the cell. If we're lucky you will be in custody for the remainder of the season. Somewhere Jay Mariotti is twitching with excitement over having the rest of his years columns written for him... QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:59 AM) More perfect storm nonsense Dye, 33, has always been more of a gliding, single-speed kind of player than the explosive type. When he's productive he makes the game look relatively effortless, and when he struggles it can appear as if he's coasting. The challenge now is figuring out whether his skills are slipping or he's simply in a funk. "I saw a lack of first-step quickness on defense and he was pushing a lot of balls to right-center field," the scout said. "That makes you wonder if his bat is slowing down." Well now you all have it in print. We aren't getting s*** for JD until he starts to hit.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:03 PM) No. It was to ref Mike's comment about Sox fans being bandwagoneers. My comments in green are my serious opinions. We never have agreed on that... Probably never will.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:01 PM) Well, if you can't make tough decisions like that, then you're in the wrong business. We already made one wrong decision by not trading Crede when he wouldn't get the back surgery during the offseason and we knew he wanted a huge money deal. This team needs young, exciting prospects a lot more than we do an aging veteran hitting .250 for the rest of this year with wheelchair-style defense. That's the fun part, Kenny is making a decesion by not putting the farm up for sale after the first week of not having any rain. He understands that you can't portray panic to your fanbase and expect them to show up anymore. Kenny Williams gets it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:57 AM) Yes, to trade Dye right now before his value decreases even more if his batting struggles continue and his knee injury lingers. But even then in that little statement you just made, you are telling the fans you are quitting. A statement like that doesn't say we want to get better for 2008, it says that we are quitting and this one player deserves better than to stay here. That perception is very important, I cannot stress that enough.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:33 AM) It's funny you mention that. I have heard from a ton of folks that if the screen had slowly went to black they would have been happier with it. It left an abruptness that just left the feeling that something was happening... Even something as subtle as that changes the tone of the scene, because it would have given the feeling that nothing was going to happen at that moment. You are left feeling like something just happened, and you have no idea what it was.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:34 AM) Trust me, I don't want a fire sale just to shake things up. Our minor league system is so bad that whoever we bring up the rest of this year, they'll surely suck. However, I want Dye to be traded for the fact he can still get you some value, but he's clearly on the downside of his career right now. All he has to say is that Dye had a great career with the Sox, he'll always value his loyalty, and he wanted to reward that loyalty by sending him to a team that is in first place, etc. I don't think there's a Sox fan out there who would be upset if we trade Dye. There is plenty of sentiment that exsists that we have to trade people RIGHT NOW. It is posted here ad naseum.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) If you don't make moves because you are afraid of what the writers or fans will think than you have failed and should be immediately fired. The media and fans did a lot of ripping of the Sox in the 05 off-season (I sure didn't) and the end result was a team winning the series. What the fans think is kind of important... after all for a team like the Sox the payroll is directly set by how many people show up at the ballpark. If you value payroll dollars, you have to consider what the fan base at large is going to think of certian moves.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) Maybe it's me, but trading Dye to a contender would be a very respectful thing for KW to do. Pretty much all of those points can be refuted with about a two second thought process. The problem is, the writers won't be writing about how this is a good thing, they will be tearing the organization a part for everything under the sun. QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:59 AM) ss2k5.....so are you not supporting the idea of trading some of our players in the next 45 days? We would have to get a HUGE deal, something along the lines of Danks and Massett for McCarthy, to do a deal now. That is what Kenny has to be looking for. It has to be a deal that he can take back to the public and be able to defend as something there was no way he could pass up. If he were just to deal everyone right now, that wouldn't happen, because if there were people offering value for our players, they would already be gone. You don't just deal to dump people, which is pretty much what is getting advocated.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:41 AM) What have I wanted to melt down? And there's a big difference between the media criticizing someone for personnel moves as opposed to media criticizing a member of the organization for calling someone a f#g. Sure. People are much more likely to cancel their season tickets because they view the team as not being able to win ballgames versus canceling them because Ozzie Guillen is an idiot. So why should Kenny not be worried about media perception again? Heck I can pretty much write Jay Mariotti's next column the day after the White Sox make a trade of someone big named. I bet it will have pretty much all of these parts to it... -Shot at JR over the strike and White Flag trade -Shot at Ozzie for being a terrible manager -Shot at KW for not being loyal to the people who brought us the 2005 World Championship -Houston and Minnesota overcame bigger deficits in a shorter amount of time -Cleveland just about caught the Sox in 2005 in a shorter time, with a larger deficit -Mention of the attendence -Dye's taking less money to come here -Clubhouse problems because of Ozzie -Failure of the farm system -the few bad deals Kenny has done, and how this deal is similar to them -JR getting rich off of the Sox -slam of Sox fans intelligence/loyalty, and how they deserve better than this treatment... all in the same sentence

QUOTE(vandy125 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:54 AM) I wouldn't call it a mistake if it was me. I am not Catholic, and I would not refer to any person as "His Holiness". Only God can be referred to as Holy. We have all done wrong during our lives, including the Pope. Right now, I bristle at the idea. Other titles are fine by me, and people should be called them when the situation warrants it. Maybe a Catholic can show me where the name came from, why the Pope has assumed such a name, and what it means to them. That's a really good point. I know a lot of non-Catholics who feel the way that priests, saints, and the Pope are treated is basically idolatry. I doubt this was the case with George Bush, but still it is an interesting point to this.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:18 AM) No, I think it's the writers who will bash him if he doesn't try and get something for guys who we have little shot at re-signing. KW can't be worried about the media though....they're going to complain about things no matter what. By that time, they'll be focused on the Cubs anyways. If the Sox can get some good value for Dye, then KW deserves a medal. Jermaine Dye had the most memorable first two seasons in a Sox jersey of anyone that's ever played for the organization....now, it's time to trade him before fans really start to dislike him and forget about what he's accomplished here. Kenny Williams can't be worried about the media? Then why should he be reigning in Ozzie Guillen when he says something stupid? Its because media perception matters in this town. Don't kid yourself, its obvious you have wanted this melted down for quite a while, but Kenny has to do things intelligently or we end up with a $50 million payroll for 2008 because of season ticket cancelations. He has to be able to give the perception that he did everything he could for 2007. With teams like Houston and Minnesota coming back from huge deficits in the last few years, there will be plenty of writers convincing people that they quit too soon if they were to do something today. Don't forget that White Sox fans are about the biggest bandwagon fans in all of baseball. They have to believe that we are just reloading for 2008, and not completely rebuilding because of the past perceptions that still linger in this town. There were people who didn't go to games for a decade because of grudges like the strike and the white flag trade. It will happen again if this gets done in a haphazard fashion. QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) So let me get this straight. KW should go for it this year with the 3rd worst team in the AL right now. The worst hitting team in baseball by far, and the worst bullpen in the AL because of a few writers. Lets burn some more of the minors and torch our future because we want to play 500 baseball this year and come up short. What fix praytell can we get. The only trades I see KW making, are ones that will help us this year and for the future. There is no way, unless he went insane that he burns our minors more for a rental. Kenny Williams shouldn't do anything rash just because some people on the internet feel the season is over. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this, and if the perseption of panic able to be portrayed in this town all of the inroads the Sox made in the last 10 year are gone.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:07 AM) I disagree....with how fickle our fans are, I think seeing this horses*** product on the field right now would have a worse impact than if KW was able to free up some payroll for next year and add some exciting young players. I don't know of a single Sox fan that thinks this team has a chance to be really good this year. We're not saying he needs to get rid of everyone. I think the main person we want to see traded sooner, rather than later, is Dye. I understand keeping Buehrle until the deadline, as I'm sure they'll try to re-sign him and also make sure that the media is aware of that. I'm sure we'll play the injury card in the media even more now with Crede's injury. It better be for someone who will be around next year also then. Trading away any of our prospects for a free agent after this season would be brutal. And on a different note, I'm already pencilling in Rowand in CF next year for the Sox. You don't think that the Chicago writers will spin the Sox trading two marque players into a White flag scenario? There is a group of writers that will torch the Sox as soon as any deal is done, especially if it is done this early.

You guys have to realize that Kenny Williams has more on his mind than just the product on the field. If he melts this down too quickly and the entire media starts screaming "White Flag", fans are going to have a reaction as well. If they are convinced that this team isn't going to be good for years, the attendance will drop, as will the payroll. Kenny almost has to wait for the perfect time, so that he can make it look like he is just reloading for '08, instead of just backing up the truck completely. The perception about how this is handled is vital to the future. If they give the perception that they didn't give 2007 a fair chance, Sox fans won't come back for years, and the franchise will go back to it was in the 80's.

I agree with the title 100%... The team plays the same everyday, and the same exact posts get made everyday... Its like Groundhogs day without the Sonny and Cher.